So how much did Mark Cuban pay the refs?

by ALX8725 on May 1, 2007 11:46 PM CDT

First that ghost foul call on Baron?? He didn't even touch Josh Howard and he gets taken out of the game. And then TWO technicals at the same time on Stephen Jackson??? Seriously, I wanna know, how much does Cuban have to pay for things like that? Theres no better way to rig a game than to pay the refs to take out the two best players on the Warriors in crunch time.

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Four million, eight hundred thousand, six hundred

The exact number of brain cells you wasted in typing this "blog."

Did you watch the same game as I did?

by BrodyV on May 1, 2007 11:48 PM CDT reply actions

If he could do that

I think he would have done it in the NBA Finals...

by Wes Cox on May 1, 2007 11:49 PM CDT reply actions

Nice

Nice to see that the Warriors fans are as juvenile as some of their players.

by Burnt Orange Nation @ Mavs Moneyball on May 1, 2007 11:49 PM CDT reply actions

obviously I was being sarcastic

brodyv, you think Baron and Stephen deserved those calls? honestly?

by ALX8725 on May 1, 2007 11:49 PM CDT reply actions

Well

First off, since after looking at GSOM, I have to correct the rampant misconception that Jackson got 2 Ts. He got one, but was ejected. Two T's is automatic, but a player can be ejected on the first one. Given the way he runs his mouth all. damn. game. and does it from start to finish of the series, yea. I think that it was warranted when he pulled a Baron and looked at the ref while doing something that he knew he was going to get thrown out for.

As far as the Davis foul... Well, it's a damn shame when you play with 5 fouls, isn't it? Josh Howard was on that same edge for all of the fourth quarter. My eye thought that Davis was intentionally fouling in that situation. I'll admit, it was very quick, and TNT's coverage sucks so badly that I'm surprised they even had a camera covering the floor and not some T-ball game in Garland at the time. It may have been tickytack. It may not have been. But that's the risk a player with 5 fouls takes when trying to trap in the back court in the last 5 minutes of the game when he's already carrying 5 fouls.

by BrodyV on May 1, 2007 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Stackhouse was running his mouth off all game too

but he only got one T at the half and he didnt get ejected?

by ALX8725 on May 2, 2007 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions

Stack Didn't

look at the Ref and mock him.

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions

JET throws trips up Baron

and pushes him. He only gets 1 T. Stephen Jackson claps for 4-5 seconds and he gets thrown out....?

by ALX8725 on May 2, 2007 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions

True

Those incidents weren't treated equally. Sucks to be a thug with a reputation for starting shit, going into the stands, and punching fans in the face- doesn't it?

Terry's got a reputation for getting too chippy on the floor, first with the Finley incident last playoffs, and now this one. That being said, Davis initiated the contact by going into Terry's body without cause so he could "go get the ball." Terry overreacted, but Davis sold the foul on the way down. There wasn't nearly as much contact as it looked like. The replays, and the video review by the league, make it plain that Davis wasn't blameless, and Terry wasn't as forceful as it appears.

In the end, I think the league will fine Terry, but not Jackson. Neither will be suspended. And Jacksons ejection occurred after the game was decided.

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions

Fuck that.

Terry's should get a game. Anything else is unsubstantial.

Jackson shouldn't even have gotten glared at.

by coma @ Mavs Moneyball on May 2, 2007 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions

Got a reason for that?

Or just want to be contrary?

I layed out why I think it wont be.

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions

classy...

by Toddy on May 2, 2007 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions

Terry

There is no way Jet should have gotten a technical and not BD. This was a similar situation to the one in game 2 when Davis got his 1st T. BD was the one who initiated the contact, Jet tried to step around/through him, and BD flopped. Just like in game 2, they both should have been T'd up and the game goes on

by MFFL1013 on May 2, 2007 4:31 AM CDT up reply actions

On on now

Baron flopped a bit but Terry had his hands on him and was pushing him. Baron was going to get the ball to start the break

by Frisco Zig on May 2, 2007 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions

that lil bitch terry...

got his when the game ended...he fell on his ass and hurt himself...serves his thug self rite...maybe he'll punch nellie in the balls in tonites game...then choke slam him...

everything about this site sucks...devin harris is overrated...the only good player the mavs have is howard

by jrich is the next mj on May 3, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions

go away

by BrodyV on May 3, 2007 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree

Baron has to be smarter than that. I think he was going to foul and realized at the last momement. Close call and the ref was anticipating

Warriros lose because they were unable to score in the last 3 minutes.

I don't even want to talk abotu Steven Jackson. I think it was a BS call but he hurts the team by talking the entire game. Refs are human and he is not going to win that one. He needs to shut up

by Frisco Zig on May 2, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions

doesnt matter what mavs fans think...

but I'll tell ya what nellie thought... post game he said jax is gonna get fined... BIG!!

by Toddy on May 2, 2007 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions

Well...

...Jackson was acting like a thug, mocking the refs so I have no problem with that. Not like a precedent hasn't already been set for the exact thing he did.

The refs always suck. You'll wear yourself out worrying about them.

by hubcityraider on May 1, 2007 11:53 PM CDT reply actions

Truth!

by Wes Cox on May 1, 2007 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions

thats it

by Frisco Zig on May 2, 2007 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions

jax ejection was EXACTLY like Baron's in game 2

Jax ejection was the same ejection as Baron Davis'...I dont think he deserved it but the Refs arent gonna take players mocking them or undermining them...dont think it was worth a tech but worth a warning...refs are gunning for him and he needs to know that

by smt83 on May 1, 2007 11:54 PM CDT reply actions

Don Nelson

just said he'll be fining Stephen Jackson

by Wes Cox on May 1, 2007 11:56 PM CDT reply actions

also....

the Warriors aren't gracious losers either...they lose their heads when they are losing in the final minutes/seconds of the game

by smt83 on May 1, 2007 11:56 PM CDT reply actions

only...

when the refs dictatethe game...if we lose because of the other team...its ok...but if the refs blow the game...wtf who wouldnt be pissed?

everything about this site sucks...devin harris is overrated...the only good player the mavs have is howard

by jrich is the next mj on May 3, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions

baron davis foul

yeah, it was weird. don't think he really touched him all that much but he was draped over him like he wanted to intentionally foul. the ref was behind him so from his vantage point, it looks like an intentional foul. just tough.

and as for sarcastic clapping - don't condone the nba calling it - and i thought the nba was fine with clapping given what happened with the crawford/duncan thing - but i guess the precedent had been set.

either way, the game was over by then. think its kind of dumb for nelson to fine jackson. game was over by then. it doesn't matter.

by ab03 @ Mavs Moneyball on May 2, 2007 12:01 AM CDT reply actions

The Mavs won...

and I will tip my cap to them.

To hell with the refs, they screw crap up all the time, and the Mavs have gotten the short end of the ref stick more than a few times as well.

If the refs do show the slightest favoritism towards Dallas, well... that's because they've earned it with their unreal reg season record and playoff performances of the past.

GOOD GAME DALLAS... YOU EARNED IT.

But, as I said in an extremely scathing diary, you will be crowned the new "KINGS" a la Sac town, unless you can pull it off two more times.

Game 6 in Oaktown kiddies, the Dubs and their "classless, juevenile" fans will be going bananas. You think winning in Miami during the finals was tough... you ain't seen the half of it.

May the best team win... which currently is the Warriors

by Warriors PWNAGE on May 2, 2007 12:05 AM CDT reply actions

thanks for being classy

same goes to you

by Toddy on May 2, 2007 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions

interesting about jackson

i think if he hadn't left in time, they might have had to suspend him. as it stands, i think commandant stu might be looking at whether or not he can suspend him but he really can't.

by ab03 @ Mavs Moneyball on May 2, 2007 12:05 AM CDT reply actions

Yea

That's not going to happen. Jackson kept himself together enough during his exit that he'll be OK.

Terry's foul may be upgraded to a flagrant, and he might be fined, but I don't see that getting a suspension either.

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions

Plus though I agree that he

talks way to much he really seemed to do little

It would be a shame if anyone (terry or Jax) was suspended in such a great series

by Frisco Zig on May 2, 2007 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions

mavericks point of view?

do you all think that richardson was fouled by nowitzki shooting that three pointer? and also barnes shooting another three? i acknowledge that those were awful shots to take at that time but still, a foul is a foul.

by llamalimbo1 on May 2, 2007 12:15 AM CDT reply actions

Honestly?

I didn't see those plays, so I can't really comment. Mostly because TNT's replay crew sucks so badly.

That said, the officiating has swung between "no breathing hard" and "muggings allowed" during this series. Tonight was mostly a muggings allowed night. I've noticed a pretty consistent trend that the refs are quick on the whistle for t's, and very, very slow on the whistle for perimeter fouls, and even slower for over the back calls. It's been very noticeable in the PHO-LAL series as well.

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions

this series has been all about 1985 muggings

no blood, no foul

by Toddy on May 2, 2007 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions

At least

Under the basket, on anything other than a drive to the rim. They're calling fouls on drives, but absolutely nothing on contact in the post for position or a rebound.

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions

you coudn't tell

from teh angle they showed. kenny smith thought it was a foul.

but people would have screamed bloody murder for calling a foul on a three. also, one of those fouls where its the follow through that makes contact. seems like they don't like to call those fouls if they can help it. might have been called in the 2nd quarter - not with 2 minutes left.

barnes i don't think was a foul.

by ab03 @ Mavs Moneyball on May 2, 2007 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions

after seeing it again

i think richardson got fouled legitimately as in hit on the wrist by nowitzki, but i would not have called one for barnes since it was on the follow through. that was potentially a big no call in the game. i totally agree that the referees have been really inconsistent in their calls for the entire series.

by llamalimbo1 on May 2, 2007 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions

Part of it

Is rotating officiating crews. On some level it makes sense- you don't want an official like Dick Bavetta throwing someone out in Game 1, then having them on a short leash the whole series. But at the same time, even with "points of emphasis," every crew is going to see things differently, make different calls...

Is it a charge or a block? A foul or a no-call? A continuation or not? If you change refs every game, then there's almost no way for a player to adjust to the officiating effectively.

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions

Whos got the pressure now?

Mavs or GS?? Avery says GS? I dont think so, having the best record I would think the mavs would still have it, but maybe thats avery doing a little reverse nellie on the warriors?

by Toddy on May 2, 2007 12:33 AM CDT reply actions

I'm hoping Avery goes with a Game 1 style lineup

But in game 6, I'm thinking he'll put Mavs Man at center, and maybe that horse mascot as the power forward. If Jax gets suspended, Dubs will probably counter with Thunder as a shooting guard, but the double team from the horse and Mavs Man could be too much to handle. Maybe the dubs can sign Charles Barkley to a 10-day contract?

by Warriors PWNAGE on May 2, 2007 12:34 AM CDT reply actions

Kevin Willis

First start in 9 years. Feel it baby!

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions

jax wont get suspended..

if he does... wo is us in game 7

by Toddy on May 2, 2007 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Maybe we can get the Suns Gorilla

on a 10 day contract

by Wes Cox on May 2, 2007 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions

no one will get suspended

Jax might've if he went crazy, but thankfully he walked out as sane as possible for Stephen Jackson.
Everyone's calling us bad losers, but we are a very young team, and everyone except BD, Jax, and Al have never played in games of this magnitude before, so for them to get very emotional isn't really unexpected.

I tivo'd the J Rich shot (with 23 sec left). Dirk hit him in the arm, and the foul definitely was what made him miss the shot. That said, it'd probably be to the Warriors disadvantage if they started calling those more tightly since we challenge jumpers so aggressively, so I'm not really going to complain too much about it. It's just part of the luck of the game.
Josh Howard then rebounded, and Baron then looked like he was trying to intentonally foul, but never touched him. But the ref that made the call was at an angle where it would be impossible to see the contact, and probably assumed he was trying to intentionally foul, so he made a call that would be the right call 95% of the time. Again, just unlucky.
As a Warriors fan, I'm proud of the comeback, and knowing that we easily could've won this game leaves me feeling good going into game 6.

My biggest fear is that the strategy of doubling Baron doesn't turn out to be a long-term solution. It sure looked good in this game.

by gsw4life on May 2, 2007 12:54 AM CDT reply actions

The double

Has to come early. It was effective when he was met at half court, or above the top of the foul line. If he was bet below the top of the foul line, he passed out- often to open 3's.

I guess I just don't know what Davis thought he was doing if he wasn't trying to intentionally foul. I'm sure that's what the ref was thinking too. If you play aggressive defense you're going to get called for stuff like that- it's happened to George on clean strips, Harris on charges, etc, etc. So if Davis knew he had 5, why was he running to challenge an inbounds pass that hard in the back court? Strange...

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions

ya

my only guess is that his natural instinct was to intentionally foul, since the Mavs could dribble the clock out, but at the last second remembered that he had 5 fouls. Kind of unlikely, but I don't know what else would make sense.

Just like it's the ref's natural instinct to call a foul when a player appears to be intentionally fouling in a situation that warrants an intentional foul, even if it's not clear it was actually a foul. I mean, in his mind, he probably thinks he's doing the Warriors a favor by giving them the benefit of the doubt, because in most cases the Warriors want the foul called. This happens in games all the time when the refs are expecting an intentional foul, but the players are instructed to go for the steal first. The refs' expectation leads to a quick whistle.

Ya it'll be interesting to see if the Mavs start to double team Baron more. I would think we're not a good team to double against because we don't have any non-offensive players, but you could make a pretty strong argument for taking the ball out of Baron's hands and making someone else beat you.

by gsw4life on May 2, 2007 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions

for what it's worth

Steve Kerr basically said the same thing I did:

The officials called a phantom foul on Davis with about 21 seconds left, sending him to the bench since it was his sixth personal. But replays showed that Davis didn't actually make any contact with Josh Howard on the play. After his team missed a game tying 3, Davis ran to Josh Howard as if he was going to foul him to stop the clock, then realized what he was doing and backed off. The referee anticipated the foul and called it, even though it didn't occur. The Mavs probably still would have won, but taking Davis out of the equation at that point was important.

by gsw4life on May 2, 2007 3:57 AM CDT up reply actions

What's going on here?

To the people here who get the local TV feed/radio, is there any truth to this? I found this on the RealGM message boards:

"Mavs post-game is reporting that NBA Security is investigating an altercation between Jason Richardson and a fan at the American Airlines Center. Early reports are that he shoved the fan.

Hearing it on the ESPN NBA Mavs affiliate station."

Some people on the DB.com boards say that this happened with :21 left in the game.

by Marie on May 2, 2007 1:19 AM CDT reply actions

Ach, JRich is the last guy to shove a fan

I don't know what happened, but I'd have to say it was provoked. I'd say the same thing if somebody said Dirk shoved a GSW fan (really, would he?). This is a good thread, though, that started a little rough.

BD and JET: When the ball goes out of bounds, we grab it as quickly as possible and get goig the other way. BD went down aggressively to get the ball because the team wanted to get out and run before the Mavs were set. JET was frustrated by what he thought was action against him. It wasn't as bad as it looked initially, but you can't push a guy down in this game especially after the whistle.

Phantom foul: I agree with the quote, BD went up to intentionally foul in the situation, realized he couldn't, held up but the ref didn't. It doesn't matter if everybody expected it to happen, you can't call a foul that doesn't happen. And JRich was fouled big time on the previous three. These things didn't cost us the game, just irritated us because all of the blatantly really bad calls got saved for the end.

Stephen Jackson's clap: Charles took Stephen's side after the game and they replayed the action a couple of times. Stephen didn't so much as look at the refs, let alone say anything. He looked at his teammates as he passed them and then up into the stands. His mouth didn't move. Nellie's fine is a Nellie mind game to get Stephen Jackson to be as careful as possible tomorrow night.

by Nice W Fan on May 2, 2007 11:30 AM CDT reply actions

Mavs have better chance because Dirk's white?

Slightly OT, but relevant article from NY Times on referees' bias in favor of whites based on statistical study:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/02/sports/basketball/02refs.html?ex=1178769600&en=e738eb8c20e09f0 d&ei=5070&emc=eta1

According to this article, refs have a slight racial bias in favor of white players. Based on the article, the Mavs will have an edge because their best player is white.

Back OT, how do you explain that Terry did not get assessed a flagrant foul when he threw Davis down, and then Jackson gets tossed for clapping? I call B.S. on that.

Just because someone has a reputation for starting stuff, doesn't mean they did, or did not, do anything in a particular case. If you were in a court of law, that sort of evidence would not be allowed. In this case, we shouldn't even be talking about S-Jax; we should be talking about the ref getting suspended like the ref who tossed Duncan for laughing.

by OscarSucks @ Mavs Moneyball on May 2, 2007 11:37 AM CDT reply actions

Except

Dirk doesn't get any calls because of his game. He doesn't get "star" calls, much less "superstar" calls, much less "white superstar" calls. I call shenannigans on the study anyway. The fact is that the three people who did it had a seriously vested interest in proving that such a bias exists- it gets them tenure, sells more books, etc...

Now Nash? I'd believe that.

Also, Article Four of the Federal Rules of Evidence specifies extensive allowances and procedures for introducing character evidence in a court of law.

by BrodyV on May 2, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions

he certainly got a nocall

on that 3 from richardson...

by llamalimbo1 on May 2, 2007 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions

Jeez, don't lawyer me to death...

I guess you're an attorney, brodyv. FWIW, I agree and call b.s. on the study too. Sorry that wasn't clear from the post. (I was definitely not serious about Dirk being white helping the Mavs; jsut trying to get a little rise)

Also, the general rule regarding character evidence, for those who aren't lawyers is this:

the "prosecutor" can't introduce evidence of bad character to prove a defendant did something unless the "defense attorney" tries to introduce evidence of good character first.

S-Jax didn't do anything to warrant getting tossed last night & saying he deserved it because of some other things he's done is ridiculous.

I've got a question: why don't Mavs' fans rag on the other lawyers at AAC to get off their bloody Blackberrys & yell for their team? (sounds like brodyv did his part...)

At least there's admissible evidence that the fans were disinterested/apathetic while the Mavs/Dubz played one of the better playoff games this year...

by OscarSucks @ Mavs Moneyball on May 2, 2007 4:04 PM CDT reply actions