Who Is Devin Harris?
John Hollinger compares Devin Harris to Kevin Johnson in his Per Diem piece today. I don't think that's accurate. With his drive and dish, drive and score, and drive and pop range of moves, I think he's much closer to Allen Iverson. He's certainly not a point guard like Chris Paul or even Tony Parker.
Wes and I both lamented the loss of Devin and weren't big fans of the trade for Jason Kidd, but I think the jury is still out. It is distinctly possible that the Mavs didn't need an Allen Iverson... they needed a playmaker like Jason Kidd.
That said, I still miss the kid.
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I miss him too
I am normally quite indifferent towards the Nets, but since Devin was traded there, I try to watch their games more often just so I can keep up with him. I think it’s great that he is flourishing and showing his true potential. I was wary of the trade, but it wouldn’t be honest of me to say that I regret it, because I have warmed up to having Jason Kidd on the team. Yet I do wonder, especially when he has these monster games (it blows my mind how Devin set a new career high in points last night after setting what had been a career high just a few games ago) , about how this team would be like if Devin was still on board.
"We know we're right there, but 'right there' in this league doesn't get you anywhere." -- Dirk Nowitzki
by Marie on Dec 1, 2008 5:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I’d say Avery still would have his job. Devin made his iso system look much better than it was with Kidd at the helm, since he could drive and open lanes for everyone else. I keep pointing out that when he was traded, we were still going pretty well even despite a mini-slump which came because he was hurt. If Devin came back and we continued onwards, I’m thinking we get a good seed, #5 at worst and we probably wouldn’t have faced NO first up (Houston or Utah, anyone? We showed we could beat Phoenix and they got worse with Shaq. Everyone agrees we matched up extremely well against the Spurs at that point. Denver was going in at a crawl. I’m not sure about LA with Gasol or the Hornets though.)
by jonthefon on Dec 1, 2008 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The jury if the Kidd trade will bring something to Dallas is out. The jury if they overpaid for him is in I would say, and voted yes
If only because Harris will be an All-Star long after Kidd has retired.
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 6:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
Not if there is a plan to rebuild starting this year, and no one is untouchable. I find it hard to believe that Mark Cuban or Donnie Nelson thought Kidd was actually the missing piece.. I also believe the 2009 Dallas Mavericks roster and the 2008 Dallas Mavericks roster will have little in common… Jason Kidd’s 21 million expiring will be a big part of the transition.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 1, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why?
if you agree that Dirk is the cornerstone of the Mavericks, and you saw that he really needed some help from a pass-first playmaking point guard and even asked for Kidd specifically, you would have agreed that Kidd was a good fit for this team. And we weren’t going to get free Kidd from Rod Thorn the way the Lakers snuck Gasol out of Memphis…so we had to pay SOMETHING. It was either Devin or Josh that had to go in that trade…and I still believe we made the right call out of those two. I’d rather have Harris moving forward after this year, but hindsight being 20/20, I don’t think you make a fair argument regarding whether Kidd was the missing piece.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 2:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought there were a number of reasons we made the trade
and the least of those reason’s was because Kidd made us a championship contender last or this year.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 2, 2008 6:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Parker. I think he's most comparable to him.

Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
by sprite on Dec 2, 2008 12:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
If he improves his jump shot.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 2, 2008 1:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree
I think Parker is much more of a traditional point guard than Harris. Granted, I’ve only seen 6 quarters of Nets basketball this year, but Devin appears to me to be thinking about how to penetrate the defense first-and-foremost, he then either drives to score or drives to dish. Most of his assists come out of opportunities generated by his assault at the basket. This reminds me exactly of Iverson. The goal is to score, and if he can’t do that then he looks for the open man.
Parker is much more controlled and has better court vision in my opinion. Part of that is certainly due to him having Duncan on the block, but he also seems to just have a better sense of looking for the best scoring opportunity for the team, whereas Devin seems to be looking for the best scoring opportunity for him.
I don’t mean to imply that Devin is selfish, just that he knows that his ability to get past his defender to the basket is a key weapon and he uses it relentlessly. Again, that reminds me of Iverson much more than Parker. And note—Iverson racks up a lot of assists, too!
by Jakedfw on Dec 2, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mid-range game
Huge part of Iverson’s game, Harris not so much.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 2, 2008 9:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lest we forget
Harris rarely scored above 20 during his time in Maverick blue, nor were his assists totals eye popping. I think the Nets are happily surprised at his output this season.
"Just remember, they can buy anything, but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it."
by NavNukeBear on Dec 2, 2008 2:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Harris seemed to have been passing better before we traded him.
and I think he could’ve been a 20 ppg scorer here if he was our unquestionable # 2 guy as he is on the Nets. But we had J-Ho and even Terry ahead of him in the pecking order. With that said, I am VERY surprised in his 37 or whatever it was as he beat down the new Iverson Pistons, and then even more shocked as he dropped 47 the other night and hit all SEVENTEEN of his free throws. Amazing. I miss the hell out of him.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Dec 2, 2008 2:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's because
he’s done amazing work on his jump shot, especially the pull-up midrange jumper. That means defender can’t just sag off him and they’ll have to play him closer, giving him the chance to blow by them with his speed, initiate contact and get to the line.
by jonthefon on Dec 2, 2008 3:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
“He’s certainly not a point guard like Chris Paul or even Tony Parker.”
Harris’ assist rate has been higher than Tony Parker’s each season he’s been in the league, including this one. Chris Paul certainly isn’t the standard; he’s the ideal.
“Harris rarely scored above 20 during his time in Maverick blue, nor were his assists totals eye popping.”
He was also rarely given 30 minutes a night. For all the praise Avery gave Devin’s defense, the little general seemed to willfully hinder his progress as an offensive weapon. Harris, who is still just 25, wasn’t a top five draft pick for no reason.
As much as I admired Kidd as a player in his early days, it was apparent to me from the start that this was an awful trade, and now it just seems embarrassing, if not demoralizing. I know Dirk has been vocal in his support of Kidd, and I know Kidd has been shooting the ball exceptionally well(something I can’t imagine will continue the entire season), but the fact of the matter is the Mavericks gave up the player who was a lot younger, a lot cheaper, and clearly now a lot better.
And they sent two first round draft picks along with him.
by Ian Cobb on Dec 2, 2008 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Devin/Tony Parker
Harris’ assist rate has been higher than Tony Parker’s each season he’s been in the league, including this one.
You can say the same thing about Allen Iverson, whose assist totals are better than Tony Parker’s. That’s the whole reason I made the comparison. You can’t just look at the stats. Iverson racks up assists in a very different fashion than Tony Parker, and I contend that Devin racks them up in a different fashion as well.
by Jakedfw on Dec 2, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
“You can say the same thing about Allen Iverson”
No, you can’t. Tony Parker’s assist rate has been better than Iverson’s in each of the last half-dozen years.
Another area in which the Iverson comparison fails is in shooting percentages. Iverson is a volume shooter who launches a lot of long jumpers. Harris generally has better shot selection and does the bulk of his damage closer to the basket, ala Parker and KJ.
by Ian Cobb on Dec 2, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Durant = Allen Iverson – assists
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 2, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what's most shocking to me
is that Durant is barely outrebounding Iverson this year. What happened to the 25-11 guy I saw in college? He’ll have a long career because he can score, but I haven’t seen such a misuse of size and athleticism since Jonathan Bender.
by Ian Cobb on Dec 3, 2008 2:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Extremely unimpressed so far.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 3, 2008 7:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go
First of all, you’re dead wrong about Iverson’s and Parker’s assist numbers, but any way. I looked at some of the numbers to get a better perspective. Let’s use Harris in New Jersey’s stats this year versus the career stats of Parker and Iverson:
Who hits the paint harder? A good measuring stick is FTA:
Harris 11.8
Parker 3.2
Iverson 9.2
So Harris is off the chart in terms of his attacking the paint. Parker this year is doing his best in his career in terms of drawing fouls with 5.7 attempts per game, which is still way behind Iverson and Harris. Iverson’s FTA stats pretty much make it clear he doesn’t just sit back and take jumpers.
You mentioned that Parker generates more assists than Iverson. I contend that, even if that were true, they generate them in different ways. Regardless, let’s look at the stats (again looking at Harris this year versus Parker and Iverson for their career):
Harris 6.4
Parker 5.5
Iverson 6.3
Parker is having his best assist season ever, averaging 6.1 per game. Iverson is having his worst season in seven years, averaging 5.3, but it should be noted he averaged 6.7 earlier this season with Denver. Last year Iverson averaged 7.1 assists per game. Parker averaged 6.0. Clearly Iverson has generated more assists in his career than Parker, with the exception of the 12 games he’s played this year with Detroit.
I believe my point still stands: Iverson generates a ton of offense by dishing assists off of his attacks in the paint, which is exactly the way Harris does it. Parker plays more of a traditional role, probing the defense and looking for Ginobli or Duncan.
Finally, let’s look at 3P FG%. Most people don’t realize that Parker’s 3 point shooting hasn’t definitively improved. He just isn’t given the green light to shoot them. Popovich has Parker on an extremely short leash beyond the arc (only .7 attempts per game last year. Let’s look at the stats:
Harris 31% (on 2.2 attempts per game)
Parker 31.5% (on 1.7 attempts per game)
Iverson 31.4% (on 3.9 attempts per game)
So basically all three are lousy 3 point shooters. Popovich knows this and basically doesn’t let Parker shoot threes. Harris under Avery was the same way, for the most part. However, Harris has been let loose in New Jersey, and his 3 point profile has started to inch closer to Iverson’s.
Let’s look at FG attempts. One of my core contentions is that Harris has approached his role at New Jersey as score first and pass second (primarily off his drives). A lot of field goal attempts would confirm this. Let’s look at Harris in New Jersey versus career for Parker and Iverson:
Harris 15.3 FGA/game
Parker 13.1 FGA/game
Iverson 22.5 FGA/game
So, again, we have a scenario where Harris is between Iverson and Parker. The recent play of Parker is interesting, however. Parker has indeed needed to shoulder more of the Spurs scoring load, and over the past three seasons, his FGA are much higher than his career average (14.2, 15.1, 17.1). Iverson’s attempts are down this season to below Harris and Parker’s, but even last year he was attempting 19 per game.
Finally, let’s look at shooting accuracy.
Harris 48.7%
Parker 48.8%
Iverson 42.5%
Iverson certainly shoots a lot as we saw, and—as illustrated—he isn’t as good a shooter/finisher as Parker and Harris. In this sense, Harris is quite a bit better than Iverson, which in and of itself is a scary thought.
In the end, you have to watch the games to really assess “style.” It is certainly debatable, but I really do get a sense that Harris is evolving more into an Iverson type of guard more than a Parker type of guard. What, what the heck, in ten years we may be describing some young guard as evolving into a “Harris kind of guard”—one who attacks and shoots in volume like Iverson, but does it in a much more efficient way, like Parker.
by Jakedfw on Dec 2, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
13 games
You’re comparing 13 games of Devin Harris this year to career #’s of Parker and Iverson? Beware small sample sizes.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Dec 3, 2008 12:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
“First of all, you’re dead wrong about Iverson’s and Parker’s assist numbers”
Iverson’s assist rates the last six years:
21.4
20.2
17.9
19.2
17.4
15.1
Parker’s assist rates the last six years:
23.2
22.6
23.0
25.0
24.8
24.0
You reference raw assist totals, which are extremely misleading when you’re comparing such drastically different offensive systems(and players with different roles within those systems). Basically, you’re looking at the wrong stats. Iverson dominates the ball, so his assist totals are inflated. Both Parker and Harris pass the ball at a significantly higher rate, so it isn’t terribly surprising that they both have better shot selection, and end up with better field goal percentages.
Iverson may have the body of a point guard, but his statistical profile matches that of an elite shooting guard. While Harris has been shooting a lot more recently, the season is still young, so it’s a pretty small sample size, and it’s worth noting that last year his assist rate was a very respectable 27.2(identical to Andre Miller, for comparison’s sake).
Given that he’s only 25 years old, can penetrate effortlessly, and is still finding his way within a young, rebuilding team, I don’t think it’s out of the question that Devin Harris could end up raising his assist rate considerably. Give him some spot up shooters and he could be scary. Again, I think a cross between Parker and KJ is his ceiling offensively(which, combined with shutdown defense, makes him a potential MVP candidate down the line).
by Ian Cobb on Dec 3, 2008 1:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Devin
It would have been awesome to see Devin be unleashed under another coach (Carlisle) because it was so obvious at the time that Avery did not trust the guy. That being dais, there’s no way Devin would be dropping 40+ pts and dishing out 10+ dimes while he’s at it if he were still with us because that’s improbable when you have a team with 20ppg guys in Dirk, Josh, and JET. Devin looks so awesome right now because who’s the Nets got other than him and VC?
But then again, I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I wish he was still with us and terribly miss him. Kidd’s been awesome for us (and I wanted the trade to happen although it wasn’t my initial opinion) but crying over spilled Devins is a true temptation of one Mavs fan here.
Oh and did anyone see that mid-range step-back pull-up J Devin pulled off against the Suns? Where the hell was that when he was wearing Mavs blue?
by ptrck on Dec 2, 2008 2:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He did it a few times
in 07-08.
Theoretically, which one do you think makes our fast-break system better?:
-Kidd getting the rebounds and throwing pin-point passes all over the place?
-Or Harris getting an outlet pass, going on a one-man fast break to get to the rim and draw contact?
by jonthefon on Dec 2, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i liked harris too while he was here.
i’m sure he wasn’t given a fair shake because we tried to make him something he wasn’t, but i’m glad he has had success in jersey.
Really all America want is cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to take a s**t with a door on it. - Mr. Ford
by buckets on Dec 2, 2008 3:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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