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Sam Amick mentions a Josh Howard pairing

Today in his blog, Sam Amick of the Bee mentions the Josh Howard for Ron Artest trade.

For the record I think this could only be done from the Mavs point of view, if, that Artest doesn't opt out, and demand a higher salary than his current 7.4 million, and that is of course a problem.

Now, another issue, is of course that Josh Howard is a BYC player, and as such, probably can't be realistically traded until the July Moratorium is lifted. That's going to give the Kings a great advantage in putting together an Artest package as well. That, of course, will also hurt putting together a JO package as all of Howard's salary will be needed in putting toward the total amount to satisfy the trade from CBA requirements.

Personally, I think, the trade would be a great idea. I also think it would help the Mavs from a versatility standpoint. Artest can defend, or do it at a higher level than anyone currently on the Mavs roster at least, more players from 1 to 5 than just about any other player today. The Mavs need that, regardless of Rick Carlisle coaching the team or not.

For the record though, and I say this only for this reason, for those wondering how Carlisle feels about it here's what he said in Amick's blog today:

"Of course," Carlisle said when asked if he would coach his former player again. "This guy is one of the real difference-makers that we have in this league. He's had one all-star year; that's when he played for me. I've had a chance to reconnect with Ronnie a couple times over the last couple of years. I love him and I love his family, so yeah. This guy was one of the most physical, intimidating players that I've ever seen at the small forward position, so he'd be a player that any team would want to have."

I think that personally says it all, and then some, but clearly, if it was a healther Artest, and a cheaper one at that, with a smaller contract than JO's, and one that expires after next season if he doesn't opt out, this gives the Mavs every bit of leverage to target Artest before O'Neal. And I say that knowing the Mavs targeted Kidd for several years, and finally got the deal done. I don't think, though, that O'Neal is quite the same as Kidd in many respects. And that's just starting with health. Again, I'm curious to see what everyone around here thinks, and as everyone knows, anytime a trade there is 2 to tango.

 

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Would you pull off a Josh Howard for Ron Artest trade?
  • Yes
  • No
  • Maybe, give me some time

  80 votes | Results

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I don't want a guy who is a technical waiting to happen.

Who started that The Brawl.

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 14, 2008 10:51 PM CDT   0 recs

Thats

the kind of fire we need on this team..

Some passion would be great.

Say your sorry to Ron Washington

by miles on May 14, 2008 11:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not a fan of Artest

But I will say he rarely gets tech’s.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on May 15, 2008 6:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No way

setting the personal and locker room poison aside… Not even talent wise would this be a good trade. I think Josh carries much more VALUE both talent wise, age, and yes, also what he has been through personally over the years… That incident in Detroit DRAMATICALLY hurt his value as a player, and I dont expect the Mavs to over value him with a one year deal, in which he more than likely wont come back.

But that doesnt mean I would not like to see Artest here by all means, but not for Josh. If there is another way to bring him in, I would almost say for Terry MAYBE, just bc of his crappy contract, or we use the MLE to get him, then yeah.

If we use Josh in a trade, I hope its for someone like O’Neal… that to me is a SURE upgrade. I dont necessarily think a Josh for Artest trade is a true upgrade for this team, but more of us taking a “chance”. We did that with Kidd, and look how it turned out so far… If carried out, he is not going to statistically continue the production he was in Sacramento, so we cant really go there to compare him to Josh as it stands right now. I see more upside in sticking with Josh, than to swap him out for Artest.

I agree with Miles, in that we need passion, but I think the heart and soul of this team will lay with Dirk no matter who is here. As he goes, the team goes IMO… cuz the same things about “passion” and “leadership” were said about kidd too when brought here. KIDD did/does have those qualities, it was evident when he was in NJ and he was the “man” there… but this is not his team, and he knows it. It’s Dirks job to bring the passion and leadership to the team.

by Toddy on May 14, 2008 11:38 PM CDT   0 recs

I wouldn't do the trade, but...

Josh and Artest are actually the near the same age. Artest is only 6 months older than Howard. There is a perception that Josh is a young player, but he is damn near 30. I do think he’ll have a great 2008-2009 season though.

I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor

by DennardC on May 15, 2008 2:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm

Well your opinion is your own. Jason Terry isn’t worth trading for. The whole reason the Kings traded MIke Bibby was to free up breathing room from the luxury tax. There’s no point in bringing in Terry anyway with Kevin Martin around. Jason Terry ISN’T that valuable to begin with.

As far as Jermaine O’Neal, I will weigh in from my perspective of the Mavs. He gets hurt a ton. He makes a ton of money, and other than shot blocking, does he bring something the Mavs really need? He isn’t a true low post player, and in that respect Artest is a superior player in that way, and defensively is what O’Neal truly adds to your team.

For a long time I couldn’t figure out which team Artest would fit best. I thought Miami would be the best fit, but given, and this is only given, if Nelson and Cuban aren’t fond of Howard it’s not going to be easier to trade for him. It’s also cheaper to trade for Artest than O’Neal, something that might give the KIngs the edge there. Keep in mind that the Kings could actually take a million more in salary just for moving Artest (he makes 7.4 million) and Quincy Douby. Given I’ve already said this somewhat that may not matter to Mavs fans. But given the extreme cost of Jason Kidd, is Jermaine O’Neal worth the same price? And there is no way, under any circumstance, that O’Neal or Artest is a sure bet. However, having watched, sometimes, I stopped watching the Kings because I get tired of watching Artest myself, Artest over 2 1/2 season I can say one thing. In the short term he can make a strong difference. If the Mavs choose to roll the dice, because of Josh’s advanced aged, because of Dirk being 29 himself, a year or two left of Kidd, then they may go that route. Either way thanks for the response.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on May 15, 2008 6:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Since Howard could probably give us Redd, I would rather do that.

Then I would trade Terry and Dampier for Jermaine and Marquis Daniels. Our lineup would be this.
Kidd-same as last year.
Redd- actual shooting guard, something this team has never had, look at our past “shooting” guards.
Daniels- he’s Howard, but more inside and less outside game.
Dirk-same as last year.
O’Neal- more offense than Dampier and not going to be that big of loss on defense, he was an allstar for a reason.

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 15, 2008 10:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This starting 5

would be sick… but we would have no bench.

MAYBE a bench of Diop, Bass, Stack, Jones, vet PG? Other than Bass and a touch of Bass and Diop here and there, this bench sucks.

But I dont think we can even do a Terry and Damp for Jer and Quisy can we? Do the contracts match up on that?

I think the best deal, is to use Stacks expiring contract to get Quisy this next year, in hopes that Indiana will release him and pull a brent barry.

I still like the Hinrich and Gordon for Terry and Stack deal the best though that I think you suggested in another post… But again, thats only even worth looking at if Avery goes there.

by Toddy on May 17, 2008 12:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know if the contracts add up for a deal to be made, but I added up all these player's salaries plus average cost for a bench and it was less than our salary this year.

To fill the bench we could buy a first round pick. Bass and Stack off the bench is the same as last year. Diop will be a better backup center than, um, who was exactly our backup center last year? Now guards you would have the first pick that we bought and Barea. Like you said our starting lineup would be sick, it would be so good that our bench would have to somehow manage not blowing a 15 point everytime our starters went out.

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 17, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

plus R. Terry

could hopefully develop into a nice wing player and Daniels can play back up pg at times when kidd is not out there also…

It’s really the defensive side of the 2/3 slot that I would be worried about with this rotation though… offensively though, this could be one of the best ever…

by Toddy on May 17, 2008 11:17 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Very true, Kidd will be a little bit slower, but I don't know about Redd's defense.

Can he be worse than Terry or Stackhouse?

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 17, 2008 11:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

true

I just wonder if going after someone else who is a little more 2-way than Redd wouldnt be wiser…

I mean thats really be our killer position for the past 3-4,5,6,7,8,9… years hasnt it? If we do get Redd, hopefully we get phx suns lucky and find a “Bell” this year… I thought Hass was going to be it last year, but he turned out to be a big bust.

by Toddy on May 17, 2008 11:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Trade

I checked on the Terry + Damp for J O’Neal and Daniels and it doesn’t work. You have to add Stack to make the salaries come out right. I would only do this if Indiana was going to buy out Stack and we resign him AND Stack keeps his big mouth shut.

Derek

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on May 17, 2008 11:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Also

Damp and Terry for O’Neal straight up works but I don’t see the value of that from the Maverick’s point of view. In addition O’Neal has a trade provision, but I’m not sure if it applies to this season or next. Here is the wording from realgm.

O’Neal is in the last non-exercisable year of his contract and cannot be traded. However, next season is currently an early termination option and if is not exercised, then the player can be traded.

Derek

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on May 17, 2008 11:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

was that non-exercisable year

last year? I wouldnt be opposed to doing this deal for damp and Terry in the preseason or early season of next year either if that is the case

by Toddy on May 17, 2008 12:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

last year

It looks like Artest has the same kind of thing, so I assume it was last year but RealGM hasn’t updated it yet. I could be wrong however.

Derek

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on May 17, 2008 6:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Let me update you

Artest has an option for this upcoming season pending. He hasn’t officially said that he is opting out, but has said publicly he was leaning against doing so about maybe a month ago now.

Let me answer the termination question about Jermaine O’Neal. He has an ETO (early termination option) for the upcoming 08-09 season (Artest has an opt out of his contract—it’s the same thing basically), and that means until he decides that he wants the rest of the contract, or doesn’t, that he can’t be traded. This isn’t anything special as it happens to every player with such an option in that contract. (Refer to Larry Coon’s FAQ for further questions.) Last but not least, that also means that O’Neal can’t be traded until the July Moratorium is lifted at the earliest.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on May 18, 2008 9:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah I know

thats why even if we dont do the O’Neal deal, I say we push hard to move stack and pieces for daniels if at all possible.

by Toddy on May 17, 2008 11:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not a prob...

I just put together that you’re a Kings fan (thanks for visiting)... which makes your views here a little more sense. Ask about any of the frequent bloggers here (I THINK), and Josh will hold more value in our eyes, than Artest does in yours…

I see that you are trying to convince us to like this idea, but yet this is not the first time either you or other Kings fans have come on here with this trade proposal… why? Why are you so eager to get rid of him?

For all the points you have made, Josh is paid more than Artest, so why do this trade from your side? Sure there might be the short term factor of him coming out and playing really well, but we all know Josh can bring the same when he wants (just as recently when Dirk went down and he averaged 30 ppg). And what if we dont win next year? We lose him to FA and our cap situation wont allow us to get another Marion/Artest/Howard type player after next because we will STILL most likely be over the cap. Too many questions about him and the future of the team, if you ask me

I see your point on not wanting Terry though.. its a lot of the same reasons why we dont want him. Contract is too big, for too long. But if we can dump his contract this summer and be UPGRADED (like for Maggette, or Terry and Damp for O’Neal), thats the move the Mavs will look to do before moving Josh… solely for the contract issues. So IF there is a trade done this season with us, I dont see why the Mavs wounldnt try and dump his contract first to better position us for the 2010 Lebron sweepstakes (like if we traded for O’Neal who’s huge contract comes off that year, along with howard’s)... I honestly believe that unless some lucrative offer for Josh comes up or he asks to be traded, Josh will be here next year.

by Toddy on May 17, 2008 12:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well sir

What I wanted was your opinion. Actually I can see every reason why you’re not convinced Artest is a good fit, or a good short term risk. I’m not surprised, nor am I turned off by it. I do think that Carlisle may push for the guy, and Nelson and Cuban may feel the short term risk is worth it.

I find it interesting so many people are hot to trot for Jermaine O’Neal, and I’ve yet to really undestand why. I’m not sure why O’Neal would be more attractive, unless you’re dumping Damp and Terry to do it. That is understandable.

Now, and this is fairly simple, I think Michael Redd doesn’t give you much of anything you don’t have to a limited degree with Terry. I especially think he doesn’t help in any matchup that can keep Dirk more of a rebounding threat on that end of the floor. Redd is every bit as expensive as O’Neal is, and worse will clog your cap in 2010 for a run at LeBron.

Honestly, and the reason I would do this trade from my end is for several reasons. One is that the Kings type of team doesn’t benefit from what Artest does best, and doesn’t have the type of talent that would balance what Artest doesn’t bring. Artest isn’t a particularly great rebounder, and the Kings suck at rebounding (especially at the 4). They aren’t great defensively with Artest either. The fit isn’t quite there, and the talent isn’t there to win at a level Artest would prefer. I think Dallas has all those things that would attract Ron in the first place: Carlisle, Dirk, the rebounding, and the fact that he could get some shots for the Mavs. He’s a one on one player.

The reason I don’t bring up trade rumor’s like Josh Howard for Ron Artest is they’re so hard to fathom. The only reason i said anything is that Sam Amick said something, and if Sam hadn’t, I wouldn’t have ever bothered to begin with.I would personaly have settled for Artest for Kleiza/Najera/Jr Smith at the deadline. I’d be ecstatic to have Howard because he can defend, and rebound better than Artest, and he’s fresh blood for a team that needs some.

As far as questions about the future there are always questions such as that. Either way thanks for the reply. And last but not least I understand total skepticism about the move especially long term. However, and I think this is a rather large but, there is a shelf life on how good this Mavs team will be wtih a young (overall) Lakers squad, a Suns team that could re-load quickly, and a Jazz team that could knock on the door sooner than later. The West is tough, and winning this year, or next, is always a tough propisition. I’m not sure there is any magic elixir other than rolling the dice and going for it. However, unlike Jason Kidd, I’m not sure the price is as steep for Artest as it is any of the other options you’ve mentioned.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on May 17, 2008 5:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Garnett is passion

Artest is anger

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 14, 2008 11:38 PM CDT   0 recs

+1

Well said.

Though i must admit, under the right circumstances I wouldn’t mind having Artest here. Josh is just too much to give up, though.

"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon

by thedirkatron on May 15, 2008 2:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

-1

Wrong.

Say your sorry to Ron Washington

by miles on May 15, 2008 3:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

Well said.

by Sky Hook on May 15, 2008 7:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

-1

""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard

by miles on May 19, 2008 5:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, Howard for O'Neal, but not Artest.

If we are going to trade Terry, than I want something else, like another player or draft pick. It would be taking a chance like you said.

Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?

by srdmad on May 14, 2008 11:41 PM CDT   0 recs

Artest

While I love parts of his game, I dont think he is a legitimate #2 on offense either. That is what this team is sorely lacking imo.

by kumizi on Jun 7, 2008 3:54 AM CDT   0 recs

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