A General Open Thread
by Wes Cox
on May 16, 2008 12:53 PM CDT
in Site News
I've done nothing but work the last three days, so sorry about the lack of posts during the Carlisle press conference etc...
Use this as an open thread for any of the rumors swirling around or anything else.
0 recs |
152
comments
EmailComments
How does everybody feel about that foul on West last night?
by JayKim41 on May 16, 2008 1:48 PM CDT 0 recs
It was just Horry playing old school old man basketball. The only type of basketball he is capable of playing at this point of his career. There wasn’t much difference from Tyson Chandler’s foul on Tony Parker the other night.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on
May 16, 2008 2:48 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I'm in the minority
But I was fine with the foul. I can’t stand David West. Again…I know I’m in the minority on David West.
by Avery210 on
May 16, 2008 4:19 PM CDT
up
0 recs
oh
And I’m very glad that Carlisle has come in and asserted his understanding of Josh Howard’s importance to our team.
If we gave him up it would have to be for an absolute superstar and nothing less.
by JayKim41 on May 16, 2008 1:51 PM CDT 0 recs
No
way we’re getting a superstar for him. Unless Chris Wallace is eager to pull a Chris Wallace.
by mffeva on May 16, 2008 4:41 PM CDT 0 recs
Howard and others for Carmelo?
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 16, 2008 7:29 PM CDT 0 recs
Is that an upgrade?
Has there been any more talk of trying to swap Josh Howard for Gerald Wallace, what do we have to put together to get a Josh Smith?
by bbob on
May 16, 2008 10:12 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Melo
no thanks. Not another guy who makes dumb off court decisions. Plus he doesn’t play D. Gerald Wallace seems injured too often. Josh Smith? Now we’re talking. If he could be mature and learn to not take so many jump shots, that’s interesting.
by mffeva on May 16, 2008 10:31 PM CDT 0 recs
Carmelo would be a terrible fit here...
We don’t need a guy like Carmelo Anthony, who is going to need to dominate the basketball to be effective. If we trade Josh Howard, we need to get a guy who can score efficiently without dominating the basketball. With Kidd and Dirk, the ball will be in their hands the majority of the time. We need guys who can feed off and capitalize on the opportunities those two create. Josh struggled to do that after the trade this year, and that’s one reason why the Kidd deal looks so bad right now… Josh wasn’t effective moving without the basketball, and the offense stalled with him, Dirk, and Kidd needing the ball in their hands to be effective.
Wouldn’t trade Josh Howard for Gerald Wallace, either… His head injuries bother me…
Now… Josh Smith? Ron Artest? Shawn Marion? Jermaine O’Neal? Yes, yes, yes and yes…
Ron has a very strong, well-established relationship with Carlisle from their days in Indiana, so I don’t think he’d come here and be a handful… That, and I feel like he’s everything this team needs. Someone who has no problem playing a little dirty, taking a hard foul…
Jermaine O’Neal would just be a real good fit. Not sure I’d trade Josh for him, but it seems like he could be a decent “buy-low” investment, as there probably wouldn’t be much market for him… Dirk and O’Neal in a high/low post 2 man game? NICE… But again, the health concerns make me tap the brakes a bit…
Do you revisit the Jason Terry/Corey Maggette conversations? I think that’s something that really might intrigue me again…
If it were me, I’d split the MLE between Diop and someone like Mikael Pietrus or Chris Duhon… Buy a low-1st round draft pick and draft a defensive-minded guy like Mario Chalmers or Brandon Rush or a top-flight athlete like Davon Jefferson or Bill Walker… Move around in the second round and get an athletic big in the mold of Bass, Paul Milsap, Carl Landry, Leon Powe, Jason Maxiell (Joey Dorsey, DJ White, DeVon Hardin?), and/or a pure shooter like Courtney Lee or Richard Roby…
by N41D on May 17, 2008 12:55 AM CDT 0 recs
Yes and Yes
Do you revisit the Jason Terry/Corey Maggette conversations?
I’d split the MLE between Diop and someone like Mikael Pietrus or Chris Duhon… Buy a low-1st round draft pick and draft a defensive-minded guy
But I would say an ALL AROUND guy (howard/daniels type) would be even better, and have them work with R Terry this year in getting some PT.
Still not sold on Howard for Artest… but Marion, Smith and O’Neal are all no brainers.
by Toddy on
May 17, 2008 10:38 AM CDT
up
0 recs
I completely disagree
I think the idea that we shouldn’t be interested in a true superstar like Melo just because he “is going to need to dominate the basketball to be effective” is specious.
This team needs a second big time scorer. Someone who can make teams pay for collapsing on Dirk and who can make teams have to work defensively when Dirk isn’t on the floor.
Superstars have coexisted before, and Dirk doesn’t exactly have a huge ego problem, so him sharing the spotlight isn’t going to bother him the way it would a Kobe or a Lebron. Plus we have a very respected distributor in Kidd to keep everyone happy.
I don’t think Denver would trade Melo, but if they entertain the notion this off season, we should be all over that shit. ALL OVER IT.
A team built around Dirk, Melo and Kidd (surrounded by a bunch of athletes and spot up shooters) would be scary.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on
May 17, 2008 2:38 PM CDT
up
0 recs
You cannot put two ball dominating scorers around Kidd...
Just don’t see how that’s a viable option, at all…
by N41D on
May 17, 2008 4:32 PM CDT
up
0 recs
That's extremely myopic
There are so many problems with that “logic” I don’t even know where to start.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 17, 2008 4:43 PM CDT
up
0 recs
The more Kidd stands around, the more useless he is...
Put athletes around him that can score the ball (Josh Smith, Shawn Marion, those types), or guys like Rip Hamilton who don’t have to dominate the ball to be effective, and you’re putting Jason in the best possible situation…
I’d love to hear the logic behind how you think having two ball dominating scorers paired with Kidd is an effective plan. If Carmelo and Dirk are dominating the basketball, what purpose does Kidd serve, exactly?
by N41D on
May 18, 2008 12:06 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Um
I did post my logic above.
I would link to it, but it’s, like, 3 comments up.
You just keep repeating the phrase “ball dominating” like it’s some magical pejorative phrase that explains everything.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 18, 2008 12:53 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Maybe my issue is more with the fit...
By ball dominating, I mean guys that you need to run your offense through in order for them to be effective… Carmelo is exactly that. Dirk, to some extent, is that.
If you’ve got Carmelo and Dirk in the same offense, the ball will not be in Jason Kidd’s hands very often. He’ll be getting the ball to mid-court, passing to Dirk and Melo, and standing around waiting for the offense to run through them…
Maybe I’ve become brainwashed by the Avery Johnson ‘stand around’ ISO offense the last couple of years, and it’s something that a system or philosophical change in the offense can alter… But if we’ve got two guys like Carmelo and Dirk to run the offense through, I just don’t see the need for Jason Kidd. It still puts him in a stand around and wait role in the offense, and he’s not someone I feel comfortable spotting up for jumpers playing off Dirk and a guy like Carmelo… Put a PG with them that can knock down open jumpers to keep a team honest and play defense at a high level. Kidd can do neither at this point in his career.
I wouldn’t be 100% against going after Carmelo, but I don’t think you make that move and expect to be finished toying with the roster. I just don’t see Jason being a good fit in an offense where you’re running the ball through two elite scorers… Terry would seem like a better fit, to me anyways, because he can keep defenses honest and knock down shots.
by N41D on
May 18, 2008 10:42 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I will take Dirk and Melo in the 4th quarter any day of the week.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 19, 2008 8:04 AM CDT
up
0 recs
If he is standing around, that means he is open and he can shoot the 3.
He did do that very well last year. If the defense doubles Dirk or Melo, he will be open. As well as Daniels who could then slash his way through to the basket.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 18, 2008 10:16 AM CDT
up
0 recs
The more Kidd stands around...
The more useless he is…
Even if he’s shooting an open 3, he’s still only a 30% shooter from deep over his career… Not exactly the guy I’d be comfortable with if we’ve got Dirk and Carmelo in the same offense…
by N41D on
May 18, 2008 10:33 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I guess we should get rid of Kidd.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 19, 2008 8:04 AM CDT
up
0 recs
K-Mart, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 17, 2008 9:51 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Since when did Jefferson and KMart...
Dominate the basketball as scorers?
by N41D on
May 18, 2008 12:04 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Stop saying "ball dominating scorers"
I don’t think it means what you think it means.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 18, 2008 12:40 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Dirk?
Since when is Dirk a “ball dominating scorer”? He’s one of the most efficient scorers in basketball.
by jthig32 on
May 18, 2008 8:31 AM CDT
up
0 recs
(Sarcastic)
I don’t know, maybe when they went to the finals back to back years.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 18, 2008 10:12 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Neither one of those guys needs the ball in their hands...
To be effective scorers…
Guys like Carmelo, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter to some extent… Guys like that are what I’m referring to. Guys who have to have the ball in their hands constantly to be effective scoring the basketball…
Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin aren’t that type of player, and never have been…
by N41D on
May 18, 2008 10:31 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Why not?
If Kidd is not a “score first” point guard then why wouldn’t you surround him with more scorers? That just doesn’t make any sense at all
by b3tts32 on
May 20, 2008 12:55 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Some of you want Artest, but you don't want Melo.
Please explain
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 18, 2008 10:33 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Howard/Daniels type...
I don’t see that guy in this year’s draft class, though… Maybe Davon Jefferson or Bill Walker have that type potential, but both guys have their fair share of question marks…
by N41D on May 17, 2008 10:42 AM CDT 0 recs
To be fair
not a lot of people saw Howard as that type of guy either at draft time, and no one saw Marquis coming.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on
May 17, 2008 2:25 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I'm just throwing things out.
My original thing to do was get Josh Smith. And Terry for Maggette gets better each day I think about it, but I have heard a bunch of teams that Maggette is supposed going to the last couple of days. With Jermaine and Daniels, no question about it, do the trade if it only cost Howard or Terry plus Dampier. And we need to buy a first round pick to simply get younger.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 10:54 AM CDT 0 recs
Trade Dirk, are you kidding me!
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 10:55 AM CDT 0 recs
He says his value will never be higher.
Why is it higher this year than last? The team he is on lost in the first round again and he is a year older, how the hell is his value higher this year than last year.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 10:57 AM CDT 0 recs
If we are going to sell anyone high
it should be Bass… because we cant resign him after next year… but bc of his contract (its so small), we probably wouldnt be able to get much in return unless it included a really bad contract… which other than damp or terry, we really dont have. Giving up bass AND terry or damp would require us getting the likes of a harringtion type player in return IMO though…
by Toddy on
May 17, 2008 11:12 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Why can't we resign him after next year?
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on
May 17, 2008 2:26 PM CDT
up
0 recs
not to my understanding...
because he wont have been here for three years…
by Toddy on
May 17, 2008 11:12 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Doesn't matter
He’s been in the league three years.
I’m pretty sure we’ll own his full Bird rights.
And even if we don’t (which, again, I’m almost positive we will), we’d be able to sign him for the mid-level… and do you really see Brandon Bass as the type of guy who could command more than the full mid-level on the open market? I sure don’t. Teams don’t clear out cap space to make a run at a good hustle/energy guy without a lot of scoring potential.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 18, 2008 12:44 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Por que?
I thought if a guy was in the league at least three years, and with his current team at least two, that the team would get his Bird rights.
Oh well.
Won’t we at least have the right to match? Didn’t they add a rule where a team could match anything on a guy like Bass after the Warriors got F’d in the A when they weren’t able to go over the cap to match Washington’s offer on Gil Arenas?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 18, 2008 7:00 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Okay
I read up on it.
“To qualify as a Bird free agent, a player must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent.”
We own his Early Bird rights because he’ll only have played with us for two years. Early Bird rights suck.
A player qualifies for this exception after playing two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater.
Since he’s being paid peanuts these two years, 175% of his salary isn’t going to get it done.
But we can still use the mid-level exemption on him, right? Cause otherwise the guy above who said we won’t be able to sign him after next year is right.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 18, 2008 7:11 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Ummm...
Obviously he meant his trade value would never be higher going forward.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on
May 17, 2008 2:59 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Bass and Kidd for Hinrich.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 11:16 AM CDT 0 recs
You want Ben Gordan too.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 11:29 AM CDT 0 recs
yeah I do
but I want Hinrich and Gordon for Terry and Stack… contracts match up a little better (assuming Gordon resigns for about 6 mil)
Hinrich really struggled last year, and having him learn from Kidd on the offensive side of his game would do wonders for him… plus we get a really really really good defender. Gordon = younger Terry to me… undersized two guard who can shoot lights out… maybe not the deep threat Terry is, but a better value none the less IMO.
Would it take more though than Terry and Stack to get those guys? Perhaps, but I wouldnt include bass in this deal…
by Toddy on
May 17, 2008 11:45 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Why would they do that deal?
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on
May 17, 2008 2:27 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Well I know...
The only thing I can think of is if Avery goes there, I would assume he would want these two guys, cuz they are “Avery guys”.
They need some vets, I dont know if anyone really sees them as big time vets, but who knows? I see Avery pulling this deal to bring in his Vets.
Stacks contract is gone after next year.
Hinrich had a horrible season last year, and I think its fair to say that the organization isnt stuck on him being the PG of the future… but who knows?
Maybe I should go propose it over at blogabull and see… but in order for us to even consider this deal, I think Avery has to land there first.
by Toddy on
May 17, 2008 11:17 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I highly doubt it
I know Hinrich had a down season, but he’s still got some ceiling to him. And Ben Gordon is a younger, better version of Terry.
No way can I see them dealing both those guys without getting anything for the future (like draft picks) and while getting older and worse.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 18, 2008 12:55 AM CDT
up
0 recs
The only problem I have with Gordan is that he is 6'2, just like Terry, playing SG.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 9:52 PM CDT 0 recs
But
he is a plus defender and makes up for his size with his clutchness and great shooting…
He doesn’t play like he is 6-2, unlike Terry…
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on
May 18, 2008 1:16 AM CDT
up
0 recs
As with Artest.
Do you think Dirk wants that kind of guy on this team? What about Kidd?
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 9:53 PM CDT 0 recs
When you don't reply to a specific comment
and then use an ambiguous identifying statement like “that kind of guy” we have no idea who the heck you’re talking about.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 18, 2008 12:47 AM CDT
up
0 recs
I'm not replying to anything.
That’s why I said ” As with Artest”.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 18, 2008 10:09 AM CDT
up
0 recs
"As with Artest"
Implies that you’re talking about someone who’s situation your likening to that of Artest.
So who are you talking about?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 18, 2008 7:01 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Well, I wasn't replying to anybody.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 19, 2008 8:06 AM CDT
up
0 recs
SO WHO WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 19, 2008 12:08 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I wasn't talking to any one person in particular.
It was a general statement of my own.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 19, 2008 6:14 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I asked who you were talking about
And you tell me who you were talking to.
At this point I’m just going to assume you don’t know.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 20, 2008 2:18 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Like I said, it was a general statement.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 20, 2008 8:03 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Racist...
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on
May 18, 2008 1:16 AM CDT
up
0 recs
OK.
And that sentence is supposed to be assessed to who.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on
May 18, 2008 6:11 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Well
since it was a reply to miles, I think it’s pretty obvious.
by rassoodocks on
May 19, 2008 2:46 AM CDT
up
0 recs
-1
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on
May 19, 2008 5:25 AM CDT
up
0 recs
-1
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on
May 19, 2008 5:25 AM CDT
up
0 recs
-1
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on
May 19, 2008 5:25 AM CDT
up
0 recs
You should have continued typing instead of saying ..., because I don't know who you are calling a racist.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 18, 2008 10:10 AM CDT 0 recs
SG out
of Vanderbelt, he is going to be a beast.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on
May 21, 2008 8:52 PM CDT
up
0 recs
All of this Melo talk might be moot
Since he could potentially go to the Nets, along with Marcus Camby:
by Marie on May 19, 2008 2:33 PM CDT 0 recs
If they trade Carmelo...
They need to blow up and rebuild… There shouldn’t be any reason to trade Melo and Camby, and continue to try and win… Get whatever you can for Iverson and move on… But you’re probably stuck with KMart and Nene
by N41D on
May 19, 2008 5:00 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Ugh
What an awful deal that would be for the nuggets. Unless that lottery pick is a top 3 pick, and/or the “other players” they allude to include Devin Harris, I can’t see that happening. The Nuggets aren’t dealing two good players for an overpaid slasher with massive holes in his game and a couple of expiring contracts.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 20, 2008 2:13 AM CDT
up
0 recs
It
would never happen
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on
May 21, 2008 8:52 PM CDT
up
0 recs
They would not trade Melo
The guy is 23 years old. They might be better trading Iverson than trading a young big time scorer in melo. Plus, we don’t have youngsters they would like if they would rebuild (since they are trading the foundation of their franchise). J.O would be a more realistic thought IMO.
by PinoyMFFL on May 20, 2008 12:47 AM CDT 0 recs
Yah
That’s my guess as well.
Unless he just completely runs himself out of town with his off court antics, he’s unlikely to be moved. He’s too young and talented and popular for them to just give up on him unless they’re blown away. And we lack the young players and expiring contracts to blow anyone away.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on
May 20, 2008 2:16 AM CDT
up
0 recs
Doubt they could move AI
his contract sucks.
Camby AND Melo together would be a long shot, but I think we could muster up something to getting Camby… that would by a nice two headed monster of damp and camby. Every time kidd gets burned on the perimeter, he would have the best shot blocker in the business right behind him.
I dont know who or how we could get him, cuz his contract is at about 10 mil a year and he is yet another guy on the wrong side of 30 yrs old and we probably dont have anyone they want outside of Josh, etc etc etc…
But the thought of getting him somehow would be nice.
by Toddy on
May 20, 2008 12:12 PM CDT
up
0 recs