A General Open Thread
by Wes Cox on May 16, 2008 12:53 PM CDT
in Site News
152 comments
I've done nothing but work the last three days, so sorry about the lack of posts during the Carlisle press conference etc...
Use this as an open thread for any of the rumors swirling around or anything else.
0 recs |
152 comments
Email
Print
Comments
How does everybody feel about that foul on West last night?
by JayKim41 on May 16, 2008 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It was just Horry playing old school old man basketball. The only type of basketball he is capable of playing at this point of his career. There wasn’t much difference from Tyson Chandler’s foul on Tony Parker the other night.
I never met anybody who said when they were a kid, "I wanna grow up and be a critic." - Richard Pryor
by DennardC on May 16, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in the minority
But I was fine with the foul. I can’t stand David West. Again…I know I’m in the minority on David West.
by Avery210 on May 16, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh
And I’m very glad that Carlisle has come in and asserted his understanding of Josh Howard’s importance to our team.
If we gave him up it would have to be for an absolute superstar and nothing less.
by JayKim41 on May 16, 2008 1:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No
way we’re getting a superstar for him. Unless Chris Wallace is eager to pull a Chris Wallace.
by mffeva on May 16, 2008 4:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Howard and others for Carmelo?
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 16, 2008 7:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is that an upgrade?
Has there been any more talk of trying to swap Josh Howard for Gerald Wallace, what do we have to put together to get a Josh Smith?
by bbob on May 16, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Melo
no thanks. Not another guy who makes dumb off court decisions. Plus he doesn’t play D. Gerald Wallace seems injured too often. Josh Smith? Now we’re talking. If he could be mature and learn to not take so many jump shots, that’s interesting.
by mffeva on May 16, 2008 10:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Carmelo would be a terrible fit here...
We don’t need a guy like Carmelo Anthony, who is going to need to dominate the basketball to be effective. If we trade Josh Howard, we need to get a guy who can score efficiently without dominating the basketball. With Kidd and Dirk, the ball will be in their hands the majority of the time. We need guys who can feed off and capitalize on the opportunities those two create. Josh struggled to do that after the trade this year, and that’s one reason why the Kidd deal looks so bad right now… Josh wasn’t effective moving without the basketball, and the offense stalled with him, Dirk, and Kidd needing the ball in their hands to be effective.
Wouldn’t trade Josh Howard for Gerald Wallace, either… His head injuries bother me…
Now… Josh Smith? Ron Artest? Shawn Marion? Jermaine O’Neal? Yes, yes, yes and yes…
Ron has a very strong, well-established relationship with Carlisle from their days in Indiana, so I don’t think he’d come here and be a handful… That, and I feel like he’s everything this team needs. Someone who has no problem playing a little dirty, taking a hard foul…
Jermaine O’Neal would just be a real good fit. Not sure I’d trade Josh for him, but it seems like he could be a decent “buy-low” investment, as there probably wouldn’t be much market for him… Dirk and O’Neal in a high/low post 2 man game? NICE… But again, the health concerns make me tap the brakes a bit…
Do you revisit the Jason Terry/Corey Maggette conversations? I think that’s something that really might intrigue me again…
If it were me, I’d split the MLE between Diop and someone like Mikael Pietrus or Chris Duhon… Buy a low-1st round draft pick and draft a defensive-minded guy like Mario Chalmers or Brandon Rush or a top-flight athlete like Davon Jefferson or Bill Walker… Move around in the second round and get an athletic big in the mold of Bass, Paul Milsap, Carl Landry, Leon Powe, Jason Maxiell (Joey Dorsey, DJ White, DeVon Hardin?), and/or a pure shooter like Courtney Lee or Richard Roby…
by N41D on May 17, 2008 12:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes and Yes
Do you revisit the Jason Terry/Corey Maggette conversations?
I’d split the MLE between Diop and someone like Mikael Pietrus or Chris Duhon… Buy a low-1st round draft pick and draft a defensive-minded guy
But I would say an ALL AROUND guy (howard/daniels type) would be even better, and have them work with R Terry this year in getting some PT.
Still not sold on Howard for Artest… but Marion, Smith and O’Neal are all no brainers.
by Toddy on May 17, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely disagree
I think the idea that we shouldn’t be interested in a true superstar like Melo just because he “is going to need to dominate the basketball to be effective” is specious.
This team needs a second big time scorer. Someone who can make teams pay for collapsing on Dirk and who can make teams have to work defensively when Dirk isn’t on the floor.
Superstars have coexisted before, and Dirk doesn’t exactly have a huge ego problem, so him sharing the spotlight isn’t going to bother him the way it would a Kobe or a Lebron. Plus we have a very respected distributor in Kidd to keep everyone happy.
I don’t think Denver would trade Melo, but if they entertain the notion this off season, we should be all over that shit. ALL OVER IT.
A team built around Dirk, Melo and Kidd (surrounded by a bunch of athletes and spot up shooters) would be scary.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 17, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You cannot put two ball dominating scorers around Kidd...
Just don’t see how that’s a viable option, at all…
by N41D on May 17, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's extremely myopic
There are so many problems with that “logic” I don’t even know where to start.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 17, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more Kidd stands around, the more useless he is...
Put athletes around him that can score the ball (Josh Smith, Shawn Marion, those types), or guys like Rip Hamilton who don’t have to dominate the ball to be effective, and you’re putting Jason in the best possible situation…
I’d love to hear the logic behind how you think having two ball dominating scorers paired with Kidd is an effective plan. If Carmelo and Dirk are dominating the basketball, what purpose does Kidd serve, exactly?
by N41D on May 18, 2008 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um
I did post my logic above.
I would link to it, but it’s, like, 3 comments up.
You just keep repeating the phrase “ball dominating” like it’s some magical pejorative phrase that explains everything.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe my issue is more with the fit...
By ball dominating, I mean guys that you need to run your offense through in order for them to be effective… Carmelo is exactly that. Dirk, to some extent, is that.
If you’ve got Carmelo and Dirk in the same offense, the ball will not be in Jason Kidd’s hands very often. He’ll be getting the ball to mid-court, passing to Dirk and Melo, and standing around waiting for the offense to run through them…
Maybe I’ve become brainwashed by the Avery Johnson ‘stand around’ ISO offense the last couple of years, and it’s something that a system or philosophical change in the offense can alter… But if we’ve got two guys like Carmelo and Dirk to run the offense through, I just don’t see the need for Jason Kidd. It still puts him in a stand around and wait role in the offense, and he’s not someone I feel comfortable spotting up for jumpers playing off Dirk and a guy like Carmelo… Put a PG with them that can knock down open jumpers to keep a team honest and play defense at a high level. Kidd can do neither at this point in his career.
I wouldn’t be 100% against going after Carmelo, but I don’t think you make that move and expect to be finished toying with the roster. I just don’t see Jason being a good fit in an offense where you’re running the ball through two elite scorers… Terry would seem like a better fit, to me anyways, because he can keep defenses honest and knock down shots.
by N41D on May 18, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will take Dirk and Melo in the 4th quarter any day of the week.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 19, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he is standing around, that means he is open and he can shoot the 3.
He did do that very well last year. If the defense doubles Dirk or Melo, he will be open. As well as Daniels who could then slash his way through to the basket.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 18, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The more Kidd stands around...
The more useless he is…
Even if he’s shooting an open 3, he’s still only a 30% shooter from deep over his career… Not exactly the guy I’d be comfortable with if we’ve got Dirk and Carmelo in the same offense…
by N41D on May 18, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we should get rid of Kidd.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 19, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
K-Mart, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since when did Jefferson and KMart...
Dominate the basketball as scorers?
by N41D on May 18, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop saying "ball dominating scorers"
I don’t think it means what you think it means.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Sarcastic)
I don’t know, maybe when they went to the finals back to back years.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 18, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither one of those guys needs the ball in their hands...
To be effective scorers…
Guys like Carmelo, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter to some extent… Guys like that are what I’m referring to. Guys who have to have the ball in their hands constantly to be effective scoring the basketball…
Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin aren’t that type of player, and never have been…
by N41D on May 18, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of you want Artest, but you don't want Melo.
Please explain
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 18, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Howard/Daniels type...
I don’t see that guy in this year’s draft class, though… Maybe Davon Jefferson or Bill Walker have that type potential, but both guys have their fair share of question marks…
by N41D on May 17, 2008 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
not a lot of people saw Howard as that type of guy either at draft time, and no one saw Marquis coming.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 17, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just throwing things out.
My original thing to do was get Josh Smith. And Terry for Maggette gets better each day I think about it, but I have heard a bunch of teams that Maggette is supposed going to the last couple of days. With Jermaine and Daniels, no question about it, do the trade if it only cost Howard or Terry plus Dampier. And we need to buy a first round pick to simply get younger.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade Dirk, are you kidding me!
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 10:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He says his value will never be higher.
Why is it higher this year than last? The team he is on lost in the first round again and he is a year older, how the hell is his value higher this year than last year.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 10:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we are going to sell anyone high
it should be Bass… because we cant resign him after next year… but bc of his contract (its so small), we probably wouldnt be able to get much in return unless it included a really bad contract… which other than damp or terry, we really dont have. Giving up bass AND terry or damp would require us getting the likes of a harringtion type player in return IMO though…
by Toddy on May 17, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why can't we resign him after next year?
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 17, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to my understanding...
because he wont have been here for three years…
by Toddy on May 17, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter
He’s been in the league three years.
I’m pretty sure we’ll own his full Bird rights.
And even if we don’t (which, again, I’m almost positive we will), we’d be able to sign him for the mid-level… and do you really see Brandon Bass as the type of guy who could command more than the full mid-level on the open market? I sure don’t. Teams don’t clear out cap space to make a run at a good hustle/energy guy without a lot of scoring potential.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Por que?
I thought if a guy was in the league at least three years, and with his current team at least two, that the team would get his Bird rights.
Oh well.
Won’t we at least have the right to match? Didn’t they add a rule where a team could match anything on a guy like Bass after the Warriors got F’d in the A when they weren’t able to go over the cap to match Washington’s offer on Gil Arenas?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
I read up on it.
“To qualify as a Bird free agent, a player must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent.”
We own his Early Bird rights because he’ll only have played with us for two years. Early Bird rights suck.
A player qualifies for this exception after playing two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater.
Since he’s being paid peanuts these two years, 175% of his salary isn’t going to get it done.
But we can still use the mid-level exemption on him, right? Cause otherwise the guy above who said we won’t be able to sign him after next year is right.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm...
Obviously he meant his trade value would never be higher going forward.
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 17, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bass and Kidd for Hinrich.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You have to be joking.
Hinrich sucks.
by mffeva on May 18, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You want Ben Gordan too.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah I do
but I want Hinrich and Gordon for Terry and Stack… contracts match up a little better (assuming Gordon resigns for about 6 mil)
Hinrich really struggled last year, and having him learn from Kidd on the offensive side of his game would do wonders for him… plus we get a really really really good defender. Gordon = younger Terry to me… undersized two guard who can shoot lights out… maybe not the deep threat Terry is, but a better value none the less IMO.
Would it take more though than Terry and Stack to get those guys? Perhaps, but I wouldnt include bass in this deal…
by Toddy on May 17, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would they do that deal?
"If we where [sic] gonna trade them Salty, I would want a helluva lot more than just Joba though." -lonestarJon
by thedirkatron on May 17, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I know...
The only thing I can think of is if Avery goes there, I would assume he would want these two guys, cuz they are “Avery guys”.
They need some vets, I dont know if anyone really sees them as big time vets, but who knows? I see Avery pulling this deal to bring in his Vets.
Stacks contract is gone after next year.
Hinrich had a horrible season last year, and I think its fair to say that the organization isnt stuck on him being the PG of the future… but who knows?
Maybe I should go propose it over at blogabull and see… but in order for us to even consider this deal, I think Avery has to land there first.
by Toddy on May 17, 2008 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I highly doubt it
I know Hinrich had a down season, but he’s still got some ceiling to him. And Ben Gordon is a younger, better version of Terry.
No way can I see them dealing both those guys without getting anything for the future (like draft picks) and while getting older and worse.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only problem I have with Gordan is that he is 6'2, just like Terry, playing SG.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But
he is a plus defender and makes up for his size with his clutchness and great shooting…
He doesn’t play like he is 6-2, unlike Terry…
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on May 18, 2008 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As with Artest.
Do you think Dirk wants that kind of guy on this team? What about Kidd?
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 17, 2008 9:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When you don't reply to a specific comment
and then use an ambiguous identifying statement like “that kind of guy” we have no idea who the heck you’re talking about.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not replying to anything.
That’s why I said ” As with Artest”.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 18, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"As with Artest"
Implies that you’re talking about someone who’s situation your likening to that of Artest.
So who are you talking about?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 18, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I wasn't replying to anybody.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 19, 2008 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SO WHO WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 19, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't talking to any one person in particular.
It was a general statement of my own.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 19, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I asked who you were talking about
And you tell me who you were talking to.
At this point I’m just going to assume you don’t know.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 20, 2008 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, it was a general statement.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Racist...
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on May 18, 2008 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK.
And that sentence is supposed to be assessed to who.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 18, 2008 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
since it was a reply to miles, I think it’s pretty obvious.
by rassoodocks on May 19, 2008 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should have continued typing instead of saying ..., because I don't know who you are calling a racist.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 18, 2008 10:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Where is all of this going?
I mean really.
by mffeva on May 18, 2008 10:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 19, 2008 8:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So um
who should the Mavs draft with the 51st pick?
by mffeva on May 19, 2008 11:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
All of this Melo talk might be moot
Since he could potentially go to the Nets, along with Marcus Camby:
by Marie on May 19, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If they trade Carmelo...
They need to blow up and rebuild… There shouldn’t be any reason to trade Melo and Camby, and continue to try and win… Get whatever you can for Iverson and move on… But you’re probably stuck with KMart and Nene
by N41D on May 19, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
What an awful deal that would be for the nuggets. Unless that lottery pick is a top 3 pick, and/or the “other players” they allude to include Devin Harris, I can’t see that happening. The Nuggets aren’t dealing two good players for an overpaid slasher with massive holes in his game and a couple of expiring contracts.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 20, 2008 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would not trade Melo
The guy is 23 years old. They might be better trading Iverson than trading a young big time scorer in melo. Plus, we don’t have youngsters they would like if they would rebuild (since they are trading the foundation of their franchise). J.O would be a more realistic thought IMO.
by PinoyMFFL on May 20, 2008 12:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yah
That’s my guess as well.
Unless he just completely runs himself out of town with his off court antics, he’s unlikely to be moved. He’s too young and talented and popular for them to just give up on him unless they’re blown away. And we lack the young players and expiring contracts to blow anyone away.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 20, 2008 2:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubt they could move AI
his contract sucks.
Camby AND Melo together would be a long shot, but I think we could muster up something to getting Camby… that would by a nice two headed monster of damp and camby. Every time kidd gets burned on the perimeter, he would have the best shot blocker in the business right behind him.
I dont know who or how we could get him, cuz his contract is at about 10 mil a year and he is yet another guy on the wrong side of 30 yrs old and we probably dont have anyone they want outside of Josh, etc etc etc…
But the thought of getting him somehow would be nice.
by Toddy on May 20, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just Melo
According to this, other names thrown out there by the Nets are Boris Diaw, Leandro barbosa, and Andrea Bargnani. Bargs…really?
by Marie on May 20, 2008 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Barbosa...
We need him.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on May 21, 2008 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In favor of Carmelo
I’m in favor of bring Carmelo if that was even a possibility. I have noticed that is contrary to most everyone on here. Looking at the stats Carmelo is only taking 3 more shots a game than Howard is now.
In my opinion.. I think its a joke to sit here and say you would take Artest, Maggette, etc.. over Carmelo. Has anyone watched the guy play?!? I don’t like the off the court baggage he would bring to the team but if we could find a way to get him it would be a steal. Maybe someone can straighten me out if I’m wrong..
by b3tts32 on May 20, 2008 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In favor, but not hoping
I read that the nuggets are willing to trade Melo for the right price. Nets are rumored to be eyeing melo since they have a chance to go higher in the draft and package the pick with RJ and Marcus Williams. We dont have the picks and the pieces that nets have to work a deal out. I guess JO is more realistic. JHO + Damp for JO is fantastic because we would be able to dump Damp’s salary. JO would give us inside prsence in O and D and he would thrive under carlisle’s system. And even if JO is unhealthy and a failure, his massive contract comes off the books in 2009 (the same time as Kidd’s contract) I believe thats 40million and more of capspace. Thoughts?
by PinoyMFFL on May 20, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction*
meant to reply to your post
by b3tts32 on May 20, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 more shots, which translates to almost 1.5 made baskets per game as Melo is almost a 50% field goal shooter.
Is his off the court baggage that much worse then Howard’s that you wouldn’t pull off a deal if we could do it?
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I don’t believe it’s even a possibility to bring in Carmelo as we don’t have the pieces. I was just somewhat annoyed that people were discounting what the kid can do. JO if acquired & healthy would be a great asset to the team.. an inside scoring threat that we haven’t seen in…? (I have no clue maybe someone can fill that in) An inside game would be most beneficial to our outside game just because it would draw defenders inside and they’d at least have to respect it.
by b3tts32 on May 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who in here is discounting what Carmelo can do?
I certainly wasn’t, and I think I was the only person in here actively disagreeing with going after Carmelo…
He’s a great player, I just don’t know that I see him as a good fit with Dirk and Kidd… Then throw in his off-court issues, of which he’s actually been in trouble in the law for, and I don’t see how it’s feasible. Especially considering most people are ready to throw Josh under the bus, and he’s never been arrested or failed a drug test…
I just think this team’s biggest issues are athleticism and toughness on the court… Let’s be honest, Carmelo isn’t a great athlete, he’s a terrible defender, and he’s not exactly the epitome of toughness.
Something about him screams Glenn Robinson to me. I just don’t see him as the solution to our problems, especially when you’re looking at having to give up at least two starters to even make the numbers work.
by N41D on May 20, 2008 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't speak for everyone
but I’m ready to throw Josh under the bus for sucking. I mean good God did he suck this year, especially toward the end of the year. For all the talk of Dirk beginning to decline, and Kidd not fitting in and all that jazz, it was Howard’s regression from a highly-capable second banana last year to abject failure as a basketball player this year that killed us in the end.
I could not possibly care less about his candid remarks about marijuana use. If anything that sort of refreshing honesty makes me almost like him again. Key word there being ‘Almost’. I just can’t get over all the sucking. It was too much. Too much suck.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 20, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just not ready to bury Josh for that...
Because God knows we were in this same situation last year with our beloved MVP, but he got a pass from most around DFW…
by N41D on May 21, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
No we weren’t.
Dirk struggled mightily and didn’t have the greatest series against GS, to say the least, but he’s an established star who was very, very good in the regular season, and there was every reason to believe he’d be good this year… which he was.
Josh was just plain bad the whole last half of the year, and he was beyond horrid in the NO series.
How you can compare those two situations with a straight face is beyond me.
The 40 trumps all!!!
by thedirkatron on May 21, 2008 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Josh hadn't established himself as a very good player?
The hell?
So Josh struggled for a month and a half after the ASB, and you’re ready to write him off because of that? Josh has established himself very well over the last 2 years. He was an All-star a year ago for God’s sake.
Josh has gotten a little full of himself and his jumper on the offensive end, and lost focus defensively, but that reflects more on the coaching staff than it does Josh, IMO… At some point, somebody needed to tell Josh his job wasn’t to dribble the air out of the ball and pull up for jumpers. He’s got to get back to attacking the rim and committing himself on the defensive end.
If you’re ready to write him off as a player, fine. But I’m not going to jump in that boat with you just yet. Granted, I’d trade him if something came along that could improve this team, but I’d do the same with Dirk and anyone else at this point as well.
by N41D on May 21, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems as if it's you that's discounting him
In that same breath you sat there and said he’s not athletic, no defense, and no toughness all. I still believe he’s better than any of our SG/SF’s.. maybe he doesn’t have Lebron’s athleticism but exactly who does?!
I still don’t get how he doesn’t fit in with Kidd or Dirk? I don’t see Kidd or Dirk as the slasher type and that is exactly what he is. Carmelo will offensive rebound, slash to the hole, post up, or hit the open jumper if need be. If he’s not the solution then exactly who is?
Even with that being said.. I still believe there’s no way we can swing a deal to bring him in, but I think it’s ridiculous to talk about him like he’s a scrub.
by b3tts32 on May 21, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reason he doesn't fit...
Do we need another player that can score the ball? Yes.
Do we need another player that can score the ball and contribute very little in any other aspect of the game? No.
We need athletes… We need defenders… We need hard-nosed, do the dirty work type guys…
We’ve got an elite perimeter scorer who excels with the ball in his hands already. What we need most is a guy like Jermaine O’Neal. He’s really the ideal fit for what this team needs, and he’s probably the most attainable. The reason I suggest guys like Ron Artest and Shawn Marion over Carmelo is because they can score AND defend at a high level. And in Marion’s case, he’s an excellent rebounder. Those types can do multiple things that help this team win rather than just scoring the basketball, and they probably come at a lesser expense than a guy like Carmelo would.
by N41D on May 21, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree and disagree
Jermaine would be a great fit if healthy.. as I said earlier and that seems like it’s more likely to happen.
I think you are confusing individual defense with team defense. Just because Denver doesn’t play great (or even good for that matter) team defense doesn’t make Carmelo a horrible defender. To me that’s what it seems like you’re saying. Maybe because Melo didn’t/couldn’t guard Kobe in the 1st round of the playoffs you’re coming to this conclusion? As if the Mavs have done any better against Kobe.. alsoo you’re saying he’s not an athlete? I think he’s a better athlete than Josh Howard and i don’t even think it’s close. Marion and Artest are great athletes but they can’t create their own shot. Those guys would fit as complimentary players, but I don’t believe they’re making complimentary money.
by b3tts32 on May 21, 2008 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has Carmelo ever been accused of being a good defender?
No. Because he’s not. It’s got nothing to do with how he defends Kobe. It’s got everything to do with the fact that he’s simply not a good defensive player.
He’s a scorer. He doesn’t offer much else in other aspects of the game.
by N41D on May 21, 2008 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you want Melo's D or Howard's D from this season?
I would say it is pretty even.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the defensive end...
You still have to take Josh. And it’s not even close.
Josh lost focus on that end at times this season, for whatever reason, but you and I both know that Josh is capable of being about as good a defender as anyone on the perimeter if he puts his mind to it…
Carmelo just isn’t good on that end. Never has been.
by N41D on May 21, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's never been accused of being a lock down defender..
but he still can play defense. Where are you getting this that he’s not a good defense at all? Are you watching the same games I am or what? Melo is easily one of the top 15 players in the league. And again Howard and Melo are not even on the same level..
by b3tts32 on May 22, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm getting that he's not a good defender...
From everything I’ve ever seen from him in games, or heard/read things said about him…
All you have to do is watch the Nuggets play, and you can easily tell that not one of them is a good defender except Camby, and even he is only a real strong help side defender…
Carmelo might be capable of being a decent defender. But so is just about every single player in the NBA. It’s a matter of whether he wants to be or not, and you very rarely see Melo put the same effort in on defense as he does on the opposite end of the floor…
There’s a reason Denver was the worst defensive team in basketball this year. And there’s a reason opposing SG/SF averaged well over 20 points per 48 minutes against Carmelo throughout the season…
by N41D on May 22, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where did you get this stat?
And there’s a reason opposing SG/SF averaged well over 20 points per 48 minutes against Carmelo throughout the season…
Just out of curiosity…
by Toddy on May 22, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could we have a 3 team deal centered around
Dallas getting Melo and Camby, Milwaukee getting Howard Dampier, and Denver getting Redd and Milwaukee’s first round pick.
Milwaukee would need something else too.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 5:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No
Milwaukee wouldn’t fall for that. They already have a center, who is probably better than Damp and his awful contract.
by mffeva on May 20, 2008 7:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Woah!
The Bulls won the lottery. That’s crazy. Who are they going to take? I can’t believe they won.
by mffeva on May 20, 2008 8:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the lottery is rigged. The CHICAGO Bulls had less than 2% chance of getting the 1st pick.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 8:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so...
That’s why I like this lottery system. Teams can tank it during the season but aren’t given the #1 b/c of it. Seriously, Riley left to “scout” during the season and every big player the Heat had decided to rest up for 08-09? I’m so glad they didn’t get #1.
Although #2 gets them a damn good ball player too so…in summary, screw Dwayne Wade.
by Avery210 on May 20, 2008 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you guys hate D-Wade, but is it really his fault that he got the calls in the finals.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Chicago takes Rose, then Hinrich is on the block.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that too
when I was watching the draft… If they do take Rose, there is no way they keep hinrich for 10 mil a year.
This may be good news for the mavs if they start to shop him around.
by Toddy on May 20, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calling out dirk
the year after for saying that he somehow “earned” that championship, rather than realizing that by living at the line because of “ghost” fouls out on the perimeter for an average of 22 FT/game, is what did it in for me. We LOST the finals, but the “nba” didnt really help either with their officiating. Wade talked a big game after that, and his play since then has been HIGHLY overrated as he is top in the league in TO’s and his team hasnt done jack since.
He looks back on that much like Davis does on our series 2 years ago, and paul probably looks at us after this year… with some damn smirk like he knows he and the refs/don nelson/avery helped him outside of his play get the best of us when we were arguably the better team in all instances.
by Toddy on May 20, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost seems like it
considering the Blazers won last year with a 5 % chance.
by mffeva on May 20, 2008 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And lets not forget about Patrick Ewing and that draft.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 8:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey, here what D-Wade said
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/52616/20080520/d_wade_we_deserve_the_top_pick/
How, exactly, do you “deserve” the top pick.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he was probably hoping
his good buddy salvatore was drawing the balls for the lotto… thats why he thought he deserved it.
by Toddy on May 20, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I didn’t realize that Wheelchair Wade is such an idiot. No wonder he’s dating Star Jones. No, they don’t “deserve” anything. That is stupid. I think the Bulls will probably take Beasley since “inside scorer” is a need they’ve had for awhile. If it were up to me, I’d take Rose.
by mffeva on May 20, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When it says the top three picks are chosen by lottery, how are the other picks chosen?
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 9:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They pick the first three picks with Lottery balls...
The following 11 fall in line by their records…
by N41D on May 20, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't believe you at first
but that is correct. They have been doing it that way since ‘87. I read that wikipedia entry more closely. Sorry for being so obstinately wrong.
by mffeva on May 20, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, that's a real common mistake...
The fact that they don’t do they Lottery selection on air leads to quite a bit of confusion on the process…
by N41D on May 20, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are also chosen by lotto
at least the first 14.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Lottery
by mffeva on May 20, 2008 9:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Then why not just say they are all chosen by the lottery.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Saw it in the newspaper that I get and saw it on brewhoop.com
http://www.brewhoop.com/2008/5/19/520615/a-viewer-s-guide-to-the-dr
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 20, 2008 10:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about Hinrich
The guy is a PG. Jason Kidd would eat a lot of minutes at PG. I dont think we are going to pay the guy 10mil a year to play back-up PG unless Hinrich can play some SG. I heard on hoopsworld that mavs are inquiring for Beno Udrih, I think thats a better fir – a very capable back-up PG for Jason Kidd.
by PinoyMFFL on May 21, 2008 1:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich can't be that much worse than Terry and Stack were at SG.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hinrch to Heat. Redd and Villanueva leaving Milwaukee.
http://msn.foxsports.com/rumors/nba
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I also saw that the Heat and Sonics are shopping their first round picks.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 12:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No way on Hinrich...
If he weren’t making $10 million, sure… But there’s no way I take the contract back, especially when you’re looking at having to give up Terry or Josh Howard to make money work…
For what he does, he’s not a better match for this team than Jason Terry is…
by N41D on May 21, 2008 12:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not just HInrich.
I was thinking Gordan or Nocioni.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I only suggest Hinrich because he had a great second year, so we know the potential is there at least. And because he is 27 years old, spending a year or two under Kidd could help his game out offensively (outside of shooting that is). Defensively though, he is young and athletic enough to defend some of the up and coming PG’s (and SG’s even) in the West that Kidd cant stay with.
This alone should make you want to bring in Hinrich… ;)
by Toddy on May 21, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not necessarily a big fan of Hinrich's
but he’s definitely held his own against D Wade and some of the other better 2 guards in the league. I believe he is very underrated as a defender.
by b3tts32 on May 22, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is interesting
via MacMahon and Hoopsworld on Denver looking to deal IVERSON....
Word is that teams like the New Jersey Nets, Chicago Bulls, Dallas Mavericks and Toronto Raptors are all looking at the possibility of shaking things up substantially this offseason. All of these teams, along with a number of others, would likely take a look at Iverson should he be made available by the Nuggets.
Turns out they are looking for a defensive minded player in return, and the mention that a deal with us would include JET. Defensive-minded and JET? Really?
Interesting to note though, that should Iverson not opt out of his contract, this next year would be his last year of his deal (along with Kidd also), and we would be dumping JET’s contract which is always a plus… now go figure out where the next 10 mil would come from to even make this a possibility.
And dont insult me by suggesting that we do Josh and JET for A.I., unless a third team is involved and we get more players back.
by Toddy on May 21, 2008 4:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know where the salary would come from, but I love to have A.I. on this team.
I think he would be the answer to our problems.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That last sentence is sort of a joke.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
A.I. would be perfect on this team. A.I. can guard the opposing point guards albeit poorly while Kidd matches up better against the opposing 2 guard. A.I. can still create his own shot and is capable of putting up 30 any given night. The Mavs would need a defensive stopper at the 3 who could shoot threes think Bruce Bowen. What about Quentin Ross?
Kidd
Iverson
Ross
Dirk
Dampier
by njnick on May 22, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A joke, because I said he would be the answer.(Iverson's nickname)
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 22, 2008 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A.I. and Camby for Terry, Howard, Dampier, and Jones works-salary wise.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 8:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why would
they do that?
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on May 21, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just saying that the salary works.
Didn’t say either team would actually do it.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Denver adds Kleiza, it would still work.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But really, you don't think the Nuggets wouldn't do that.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 21, 2008 8:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
did you think the
grizzles would swap pau gasol for brown? who knows now a days…
by Toddy on May 22, 2008 3:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why we must look at all players who are in rumors.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 22, 2008 6:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Side note.
Marquette’s Jeral McNeal withdraws name from draft, there goes a defensive guy.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 22, 2008 6:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Another side note.
Knicks looking to trade #6 pick and big contract player.
Brandon Webb, do I need to say more?
by srdmad on May 22, 2008 7:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Curry and number 1
for Jones and Stackhouse.
""I want George W. Bush to say, "All things equal, I screwed up this country far worse than I did the Texas Rangers."" - Chris Ballard
by miles on May 23, 2008 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
