Tuesday's dose of Artest and links
Mike Fisher and David Lord have written a segment, in which they give us a preview of some ways that the Mavs could pull a Ron Artest deal. They say its proactive scoop, that there have been internal conversations within the Mavs organization on how realistic it is that we could somehow land him here and undoubtedly fill our black hole at the 2/3 (assuming Josh is not included in the deal). And to be frank with you, if these conversations werent going on, I would be worried. But are the Mavs and Cuban gutsy enough to roll the dice on this?
Really, IMO, and I brought this up the other day, what are the Mavs intent from here on out? Is is Championship or bust? Is it just make it out of the 1st round? How about make the playoffs even?
It's fair to say that with Cuban, its always championship or bust. I dont know though that I get that same feeling with Rick. Just my initial impressions of him have been that he is a little bit more passive about that subject than the last general was here.
So if we are at a point where it is Championship or bust, is this the roster that is going to take us there? I mean, can an even older core group of guys + Diop put us over the Hornets, Spurs, Lakers, and Celtics this year? To say the spare roll players that have been brought in are somehow going to put you over the top, seems to suggest that you are blinded by the reality at hand, and they have a rude awakening coming. Sure the spares will get you a game or two in the playoffs, but they arent what win championships. Look at the Celtics and Spurs. Both have some of the best "Big 3's" in the league, and win championships with some of the worst spares parts.
So if the Mavs are in a win-it-now mode... while I dont fully expect anything to be done at least before the season starts, I fully expect a move to be made by the trade deadline this February. This of course, is assuming we are in the bottom half of the playoff picture around then, and are not looking as though we could contend. If no move is made at that point, then the trade for Kidd was pretty much pointless IMO.
So a move for Artest makes sense for all the reasons above, as long as Josh, Kidd, and Dirk are retained. I dont really see our "Big 3" a true big 3, because we just dont know what to expect from Kidd and Josh. I think it was a little reaching for Donnie to say our Big 3 can run with the best of them, when he should have said, our big 3 in their primes (yes Dirk was in his prime, but Kidd and Josh playing at their top levels? Hardly) could run with any big 3 in the NBA. We know what they are capable of, but last we saw them play, one looked really old, the other looked as though his head was elsewhere, and the other on one leg looked probably the best he has looked his whole career.
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Artest link
I guess Miami wants in on the bidding also, as they could be looking to deal Marion for Artest and Thomas. It also says that the Maloofs have come out and told him to just calm down, as they are probably trying to position themselves for the best deal they can get for him.
"He has to balance the way he acts," Joe Maloof said by phone. "He's got to control his emotions a little better. You've got to try and keep your cool a little bit.
"Take a deep breath and quit flying off the handle with comments that don't make sense. I hate to say it that way, but that's how I feel. It doesn't make sense to me."
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Mavs Summer Ball
We beat the Wolves last night. Bench was unbelievable. Rhodes, Terry and Foster all looked good I thought.
Art Garcia asks us to put the brakes on the comparison of BB and Singleton.
James Singleton has heard the comparison plenty this summer: He’s this year’s Brandon Bass. Nice words, to be sure, but perhaps it’s a good idea to tap on the brakes just a bit....
But the road for Singleton has taken a few extra turns. Bass did stick in the league at first, though he played a bit role with the Hornets before the Mavericks came calling last summer. Singleton, a Murray State product via community college, took his show to Italy for two years before landing with the Clippers....
Singleton, who turns 27 on Sunday, isn’t the same wrecking ball as Bass. He’s a 6-foot-8, 230-pounder who can fill in some at power forward in pinch, but is best suited to play on the wing. President of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said his defense, especially against high-scoring swingmen like Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady, sold the Mavs on Singleton.
More on Singleton here at Mavs.com, in which he did a Q&A.
MC: Some have compared you to Eddie Najera, which is a good thing in these parts.
JS: I’m not afraid to take a charge, and I’m not afraid to get in there and get scrappy. Every team has one or two guys that do that. I think I can bring that to this team. I’m just trying to fit in with everybody. This team has a lot of experienced veterans, and I hope to learn from all of them. We also have a good coach and a good staff so I’m just eager for the opportunity.
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23 comments
Comments
Artest
I’m all for bringing in Artest. In for a penny, in for a pound at this point. The window is closing fast so you might as well go for it these next few years. And with Artest’s expiring contract, you might be able to get something for him when he leaves via a sign and trade (hopefully for young players or draft picks).
Here’s one of the trades they proposed. Garcia/SAR/Artest for Terry/Stack and optionally Bass. If the Mavs insert Jones and can work out a sign and trade with Devean George and with Magloire instead of one of Stack or Terry then all the better.
Sacramento dumps a bad contract and get good rotation players. The only question is do they think they can gets a better offer somewhere else.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2008 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bass
would have to be thrown in… I think they would laugh at us if it were straight up terry/stack…
by Toddy on Jul 15, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
It doesn’t hurt to try it without him first though.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gents
Let me tell you something about Petrie. He wants to include Kenny Thomas in every trade with Artest. Also Petrie’s MO is a star for a star. You might have to give up Bass, George and Howard to pull this deal off. You can forget Jason Terry being included in any deal though. The Kings aren’t desperate to deal Artest cuz he’s cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
(I told Toddy this yesterday on StR, but I thought I re-iterate it for those who didn’t participate there.) There is some question on what kind of value Petrie is looking for, but I know for a fact Jason Terry isn’t it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 16, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went over
to sactownroyalty.com and proposed this article and deal to them (probably gonna have scroll through the comments to get there)... needless to say they pretty much laughed at the thought of anything less than Howard + Stack and us taking on Thomas.
by Toddy on Jul 15, 2008 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So this one?
Could this trade be acceptable to everyone? If they insist on Bass, the Mavs would have to get Garcia in return.
Derek
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 16, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia is nearly untouchable
And I don’t think Josh Howard coming in return will be a reason for the Kings to give him up. There could be a compromise with the Kings maybe willing to give up John Salmons in the swap. But other than that, I just don’t see how Dallas can satisfy giving the Kings back what they want.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 16, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go for it
I say lets try and bring in Artest. I think he would help us alot more than hurt us. But dadgummit, hang on to Bass!!!
As for expectations, we definitely have to make it out of the first round. But I’ll still be disappointed with anything less than a ring. The ‘06 Finals still haunt me to this day…
It doesn't matter if you win or lose, as long as you come in first.
by Super Saiyan Patrick on Jul 15, 2008 6:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
going to be hard to get anyone worth of value
to fill that 2/3 hole and not give up Bass… that is assuming we are trying to keep Howard. I have come to the conclusion that JET’s contract is like Finely’s 2.0… not quite as much, but any takers on it while getting a respectable player to fill the 2/3 hole and I think we will bite. I THINK thats what the Mavs FO is quietly waiting for… someone to bite on him and his contract.
Bass is tricky, because if he continues to improve this year, he could command more than the MLE after this next season, and we could lose him for nothing. But who knows.
by Toddy on Jul 15, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just depends on the cost...
If it’s Josh Howard and Stackhouse for Artest and Kenny Thomas, I think you’ve got to at least consider it… With Terry really being this team’s 6th man, and an influx of youth on the perimeter, what role does Stackhouse really play this year? If it’s not a major one, is taking back the Thomas contract that much worse than holding onto Jerry’s?
If they’d take back Stackhouse (non-guaranteed after this year I believe?), Eddie Jones (expiring), and Bass, you’ve GOT to pull that trigger…
But you look around, and see Lamar Odom and Shawn Marion being dangled, and teams hinting at being willing to take on the KT contract, and you’ve gotta think it starts with Josh Howard and Stackhouse…
Tough to say whether or not I do that deal, though I lean a bit towards yes, without thinking very deeply into it…
by N41D on Jul 15, 2008 7:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This would be one of the best moves
in Mavs history…
If they’d take back Stackhouse (non-guaranteed after this year I believe?), Eddie Jones (expiring), and Bass, you’ve GOT to pull that trigger…
But you’re right on the reality of the Artest issue… what we have above simply doesnt compare to what LA and Miami could offer them.
Which brings up another point, if Miami is shopping Marion to rebuild and you could either take Marion or Artest and Kenny Thomas in one of these deals… it might be easier to get Marion over Artest, just because Miami might be more willing to part with him in a deal that includes not only expiring contracts, but a guy like Bass as well.
I still think from a player perspective, Artest>Marion… but for the short term of things (which for us is this year… MAYBE next year), especially if getting artest means we have to extend him for 6 years, Marion might be the better choice here.
by Toddy on Jul 15, 2008 7:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On the Miami front...
I think they’re looking at this from the perspective that Shawn Marion wants a near-max type extension over 4 or 5 years, and he’s just not worth it. They’ve said before they’d love to keep him if he’d sign in the 10-12 mil/year range, but he isn’t going to take that type pay cut… With Artest, you’re looking at a guy that isn’t far behind Marion in terms of skill level, he fits really well with Dwyane Wade, and he’s not seeking that type huge paycheck… I think you could ink Artest to an extension in the 10 million a year range, over 4 or so years, and you’ve got yourself a very nice player on a relatively cheap deal…
Then you look at them taking back Kenny Thomas’ deal, and they’re probably looking at that more from a long-term perspective, as a potential trading chip as it gets closer to expiring…
My thing with this is, do they look at Beasley as a power forward or a small forward? Do they feel they’d be better off getting Artest in hand now, and commit to Beasley at the 4 spot, or should they wait a year and sign a guy like Carlos Boozer and shift Beasley to the perimeter? Boozer and Artest are comparable players, so it’s not like they’re losing much on the talent end either way… Just depends on where they feel comfortable with Mike playing…
If I were them, I go get Artest right now, and take on the contract… 12 or so months from now, that deal turns into a real asset, and I think you save cash by getting Artest and extending him right now, rather than trying to snag Boozer off the free agent market…
by N41D on Jul 15, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for what it's worth...
Where this team is at right now, I’d take Shawn Marion over Artest… Probably wouldn’t ink him to an extension, but I think he fits more in the mold of what you want on the perimeter next to Jason Kidd… But again, that’s depending on the cost…
If you get Shawn Marion and choose not to extend him, you’re looking at another move that either pushes you over the top, or expedites the rebuilding process with another massive expiring contract… You figure we’d be looking at 40 million off the books between Kidd and Marion, then whatever portion of Stackhouse’s contract isn’t guaranteed… That’s a ton of cash off the cap…
I’m all for the type moves that are win/win like that, where we either get it done or it pushes the rebuilding stage 2 steps forward if we still come up short…
by N41D on Jul 15, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!
CAMBY to the clips for ONLY a 2nd round pick?
by zkmavz on Jul 15, 2008 8:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We probably couldn't have done this trade, though
I don’t know a lot about the salary cap and such, but I’ve been reading the posts on the DB.com boards and we wouldn’t have been able to do this trade since we’re over the cap, apparently. The Clippers could afford to pay Camby without having to trade any players, basically, while we can’t. Is this correct?
by Marie on Jul 15, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
now that I think about it, we would have had to do a trade for the salaries… which means we traded away stack and jones at worst, and then had to use the MLE on a 2/3
I still think we can get more value at the bigger hole on this team, in using those guys to fill a bigger hole than we had at back-up/starting C.
by Toddy on Jul 15, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I know is...
The Nuggets most likely won’t make the playoffs this year, not with Camby and Eddie gone. They already don’t play D and with Camby traded, there goes their semblance of defense. I can not wait to see Portland this year, I think they’re going to be fun to watch with all of those young players. Maybe they’ll take Denver’s place in the playoffs.
by Marie on Jul 15, 2008 9:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So does this mean
The nuggets are rebuilding? I am really confused by this move, and wonder who else could be available?
Anthony?
by Toddy on Jul 15, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Summer league reminder
Today’s game against the Kings is a bit early, at 6:30 EST/5:30 CST. Sacramento won a close one against Portland last night, with the game going to overtime.
by Marie on Jul 16, 2008 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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