Shoot

by Toddy on Jul 29, 2008 9:01 PM CDT

This is a move, that propels a team in the bottom half of the playoff picture, to one of the top 3 or 4 in the West. It was the deal Dallas was supposed HAD to do become a contender.

I am so angry right now, I could spit fire.

N41D broke it first, and summaries the trade the best...

So Bobby Jackson's expiring contract, a pick, and presumably Donte Greene is enough value for you to trade Artest, but Stackhouse, Bass and possibly a draft pick weren't enough?

I dont understand why this looks any better than A. the deal we proposed a week and a half ago, B, any other significant additions we could have added to also take on KT's contract (IE sending Jones and doing a S&T with say George).

Why take a chance on a 1st round pick, when you have someone who is already young and up and coming? Both Jackson and Stack's contracts are about the same, only that Stackhouse has 2 million dollars guaranteed after this year. Is that what the hick-up was about? An extra year with Stack, and the possibility of having to pay him 2 million?

I just dont get this deal from both the Kings perspective, and from the Mavs. I KNEW Artest could be had with out Howard, and for cap space and promising players.

And what of the Rockets now, they gonna start Battier, T-Mac and Artest now?

[UPDATE by Wes 10:46] Mike Fisher chimes in and is just as bewildered/dissapointed as everyone else -- even his thoughts that Mavs still have something in the works seem like squinting to try and see light at the end of a very long tunnel.

I still believe in their mindset, and that their mindset assumes a coming move.

Or two.

But as I type that, my fingers gently weep. … and I think my knuckles are on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

Poll

Is Dallas better than the 4th spot, not in the West, but the Southwest Division?

Yes

52 votes

No

75 votes

127 votes | Poll has closed

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Their starting lineup

PG- Alston
SG- McGrady
SF- Battier
PF- Artest
C- Yao
Bench- Scola, Head, Barry, etc.
Man that lineup is scary but what If Stevie Francis ever s tarts playin like he used too…

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Jul 29, 2008 9:12 PM CDT 0 recs

Don't worry about Franchise

The Rockets cut him a few months ago.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation

by Ben Q Rock on Jul 29, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up 0 recs

well that works out

but either way, they are a pretty scary team

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Jul 30, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

Mavs Suck !!!!!!

Fire Donnie Nelson !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wait …..unlesss he has some spectacular deal up his sleeve….HMMMMM

He doesnt fire him.

kiddisaster

by aaronp on Jul 29, 2008 9:23 PM CDT 0 recs

I heard he was in China

working with the National China team… Figures.

by Toddy on Jul 29, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah, he's the assistant coach over there

by Marie on Jul 30, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

Maybe he needs to

switch to ATT, so he gets better reception on his cell phone, and can then take calls from the Kings. lol

by Toddy on Jul 30, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

Maybe we can

Sign Darius Miles …that solves are 2 spot problems

kiddisaster

by aaronp on Jul 29, 2008 9:32 PM CDT 0 recs

What I am taking to my Anger Management session tonight...

A. Yet another missed opportunity for the Mavericks to get to contender status.
B. Donnie in China
B. Cuban buying the Cubs
C. Rick is ????... selling Toyota’s? Who knows.
D. Houston, who is within our division, has now clearly jumped above us.

by Toddy on Jul 29, 2008 9:33 PM CDT 0 recs

Just in case

I was being sarcastic

kiddisaster

by aaronp on Jul 29, 2008 9:33 PM CDT 0 recs

Haha

I was gonna say…

It doesn't matter if you win or lose, as long as you come in first.

by Super Saiyan Patrick on Jul 29, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

Now that are hopes are

completely destroyed with artest …..whats the possibilty of doing a sign and trade for JR Smith

kiddisaster

by aaronp on Jul 29, 2008 9:37 PM CDT 0 recs

slim to none

at best… I see us possibly going after someone else though…

Feel free to list guys who could be worked in a Sign and Trade… just dont bring up deals that involve Josh. Mavs FO have repeatedly stated that he is staying.

And for what we could probably get for him, I tend to agree. Any guy at that position that we trade Josh straight up for, will be a lateral move, unless his name is LBJ, Kobe, MAYBE Pierce. Everyone else imaginable, at that position, while may better the team and be an upgrade at the position, doesnt put us into contention.

What Houston did here, giving up an expiring and a pick, aka… essentially nothing, now puts them in contention. Right now, immediately, today. Which is what I keep hearing what the Mavs want to do with Dirk and Kidd, but yet nothing translates.

Houston stacked at every spot now. Should Dallas trade Josh, you still have a weak link in either the SG or SF spot, depending on who you get… and it is seen as more of a lateral move.

by Toddy on Jul 29, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

Wolves /Clippers/Nuggets

Sign and Trade for Mike Miller.(wolves)
Sign and Trade for Cuttino Mobley (clippers)
JR Smith !!!!!( i would incude bass if i had too …and stack)

Giving up any of the players below would be fine with me to get a real 2 gaurd that can shoot and some what defend.

Eddie Jones
Jerry Stackhouse
Shan Foster
Jason Terry
Antoine Wright

kiddisaster

by aaronp on Jul 29, 2008 11:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

On the bright side

If recent history is any indication, the injury bug will bite the Yao or McGrady at some point, so we know they won’t actually contend when it matters.

Of course, neither will we.

by MeanMr.Mustard on Jul 29, 2008 10:37 PM CDT 0 recs

"Those number 1 picks don't matter at all....they would've been at the end of the first round anyway....

....we got JASON FREAKING KIDD!!!!!”

- Idiots.

by ericeric on Jul 29, 2008 10:38 PM CDT 0 recs

Bass is not a Petrie type of guy

That’s probably what hurt the deal the most. Your pick would also have been a long time away, so that would be further problematic. So, as far as Petrie is concerned, Greene>>>>>>Bass. Stackhouse and BJax are inconsequential in the deal, really. Neither will play enough to warrant them forcing the deal. Throw in a pick next year rather than three years down the line, and you could see why the Rockets offer was “better.” Not by a country mile, but still technically better.

Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea

by iashwash on Jul 29, 2008 11:14 PM CDT 0 recs

I see your point

but had we been willing to take on KT’s contract as well, in sending some expiring’s your way… I think this deal could have gone down with the Mavs

by Toddy on Jul 30, 2008 12:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

yes, that's a good point

Maybe Cuban hesitated on paying all that luxury tax when he’s about to drop 1.3 billion on the Cubs? Not saying he didn’t want to (what’s 100 million compared to 1 billion), but even a day or two hesitation could have given the Rockets the window they needed.

Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea

by iashwash on Jul 30, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

The best thing I take from Fisher's article is this...

(The deal can’t be official until August 14, and as I write this, it could conceivably still break down. But Jackson, for one, is already acknowledging that it’s on.)

and this:

The Triangle of Trust’s history strongly suggests that we stay in touch with Mavs HQ in the first couple of weeks of August. While this is a handy time for some organizations to send employees on well-deserved vacations, in Dallas this is the time to have signed Eddie Jones (Aug. 6, 2007), Devean George (Aug. 1, 2006), Doug Christie and DeSagana Diop (Aug. 19, 2005) and to have traded for Jason Terry (Aug. 4, 2004) and Erick Dampier (Aug. 24, 2004). There will be a Dallas deal. Or two. What will the deal (or deals) be?

Its a great and interesting observation Mike Fisher makes here… but we have been down this road of False hope far to many times to become to optimistic about whats to come. I want to believe we are still in it, to win it… I mean some of the quotes that he has in this article from Mavs personal seem to all indicate that they are aware of the black hole, and that they are looking to address it… but are they being as aggressive as they should be? Who’d thought Houston would’ve been more-so than us?

by Toddy on Jul 30, 2008 12:27 AM CDT 0 recs

Coming from a Kings fan

the Mavs deal was trash.

We don’t want an old SG because we are stacked at that position anyway.
SG- Martin/Salmons/Garcia/Douby
We don’t want another useless PF below 6’10”.
We already have Shelden Williams/Kenny Thomas/Shareef.

We need a veteran back up point guard and a positive locker room influence

Bobby Jackson.

We need someone to replace the hole at the 3 spot when Ron leaves.

Donte Greene. Btw he has more star potential than Bass has and ever will have.

And we got a 1st rounder.

So yes we turned down your offer of an old 3 pt chucker and a tweener forward for their old 3 pt chucker and tweener forward, but we filled a few positions of need and we got a draft pick. You guys are delusional if you thought your package was more desirable than theirs.

by VenomySnicket on Jul 30, 2008 11:44 AM CDT 0 recs

Who Cares?

As upset are we are about the Mavs chance at a title, your team still won’t contend for a playoff spot. The only real talent you have, Kmart, will be the next to leave.

by bbob on Jul 30, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

+1

Delusional?? Maybe you guys should look at the return you got for Bibby

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Jul 30, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

mike bibby was basically traded

so the Kigns could sign Beno. The Kings are rebuilding, relax. If I were you guys, I’d be more concerned about whether Dirks balls stay on after the Olympics rather than what some Kings fan posts. I’d also be worried about Kidd getting older/contracting cancer in China, whether Kidd can do to Howard what he did to RichJeff (cause Josh needs the offensive fires stoked so he can return to what he should be), whether Dampier is working out, whether Diop is practicing his free throws, whether Jason Terry still wants to be a Maverick, and what diamonds in the rough are left out there to pick up.
The Mavs have alot on their plate, stop lamenting about Artest and move on to the next big fish. Mike Miller?

Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea

by iashwash on Jul 30, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

and to afford Martins extension

add that in right after the Beno bit.

Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea

by iashwash on Jul 30, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'll agree on Martin

but in terms of Beno, he had one above average season (12 pts, 4 ast) and you gusy severely overpaid to resign him. Bibby is and always will be a better PG than Beno is. And even with Bibby’s contract, you guys could have easily afforded Martin’s extension.

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Jul 30, 2008 5:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

PGS are hard to come by

thus inflating Benos value. The Kings could have afforded the extension, but they would be paying luxury tax, which seems they don’t really want to do. Not everyone’s got a cash-happy owner :-)

Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea

by iashwash on Jul 30, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

haha

true true

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Jul 30, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hey

in an hostile environment here within the Mavs fan base, anyone and everyone who enters at their own risk with contrary beliefs to that of the majority of us is fair game… whether it be rational or not!

by Toddy on Jul 30, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

haha

we inked Kmart to a 5 year extension last summer that kicks in this year. So he is certainly around for the next 5 years and if he is the first to leave, then I will probably shoot Kenny Thomas. Your team gets older and crappier whule my team gets younger and we just have to wait for our draft picks to pan out.

by VenomySnicket on Aug 8, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up 0 recs

Delusional?

You guys are delusional if you thought your package was more desirable than theirs.

Thats debatable and a bit extreme… but I see where Kings fans would view this as better deal, strictly on the basis that you guys were log jammed at the SF spot.

But then why demand Josh Howard in return? I think it wasnt really a matter of that issue for the Kings with the Mavs first proposal, so lets just put that “delusional” aspect to rest. Of course now with the Rocket trade it looks better, but it couldnt have been a big concern.

The understanding that we all had with the Kings after the Stack and Bass proposal was two things: 1. The wanted Josh Howard (or essentially a player of his stature in return from another team) in any deal that involved Artest. 2. They HEAVILY hinted at that they wanted to dump KT’s salary, in any deal in which they were to move Artest.

Neither of these were accomplished with the Rockets trade. The Mavs could have (should have at least) been able to cut a deal to take KT off your hands… So is the 1st pick>taking KT off your hands?

by Toddy on Jul 30, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

he's saying they DID need a SF

but not a SG, since they have lots of good ones, or a PF, since they have lots of bad ones. That last part doesn’t make much sense—I think the greater factor is that they just drafted Jason Thompson, and so don’t feel as much need for a good young PF like Bass as they do for a potentially good young SF like Greene.

by Clipper Oz on Jul 30, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

SG/SF

Pretty sure the 6’6” stack could fill in at either of those spots, much like Salmons, Garcia and Martin all do.

Jason Thompson, at 6’11”, 250 could also play Center… with Bass at the PF.

In other words, these are all irrelevant points, as it could have very well have worked… one could have made the same arguments about the Rockets deal as well, but the Kings will manage.

by Toddy on Jul 30, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

The Kings had no interest in Stack

Jason Thompson is more a 3 than a 5, and the 5 of “the future” is 20 year old Spencer Hawes. Brandon Bass is not on Petries radar – he likes scorers, and loves shooters. Bass is a good player, don’t get me wrong, but he’s something Kings management is hoping Shelden Williams can turn into, not something worth giving up an asset for.

I’m not saying the Mavs deal didn’t make sense, I’m saying Petrie didn’t think the deal made sense, and really that’s the only measure of “value” that mattered. I like the Rockets deal more, because it gives the Kings a shot in the dark of answering 2 longterm positions, while the Mavs deal at best gave us a sixth man.

Yes, getting rid of Kenny Thomas would be useful, but now that the Kings are officially rebuilding, does it matter whether the cap space comes in 2009 or 2010, when it’ll be at least two years before there’s enough youth assembled to make a free agent move to fill in that last roster spot or two? I don’t think so, so I’m hoping you guys can see that even if the Mavs had tried to swing that offer, it still might have failed.

Live and let live, guys… time to figure out how to one-up the Suns, Spurs, Rockets, Hornets and Lakers (let alone the Pistons, Celtics). Don’t be bitter because your front office “messed” this up (and I used that term lightly, I don’t think they screwed anythign up) , be bitter if they don’t make any moves before the season starts.

Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea

by iashwash on Jul 30, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

bitter does not begin to describe our feelings

Don’t be bitter because your front office "messed" this up (and I used that term lightly, I don’t think they screwed anythign up) , be bitter if they don’t make any moves before the season starts.

The continual let downs this summer after so much hype from the Mavs FO, are a far cry from us being being bitter.

Agreed with much of what you said here Iashwash, again its not anger towards the Kings or Rockets… its anger with in our own team. Its not that a matter of what Petrie thought made sense with the original trade proposal by the Mavs, its what the Mavs countered (if they did infact counter) to make things happen. So many unanswered questions from our end is all…

by Toddy on Jul 30, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

LOL

If you actually think Donte Greene will be a star, somebody’s got you fooled… You want to talk about Stackhouse or Bobby Jackson being a 3 point chucker…

He’s incapable of defending the perimeter and he’s terrible handling the ball… He’s not explosive or physical enough to cut it as an undersized PF. He doesn’t attack the rim and settles for too many jumpers… And for anybody that watched him consistently in college, the fact that he didn’t exactly dominate that level night in and out on his raw ability alone leaves a lot to be said about his desire and work ethic…

And I think you’re kidding yourself if you think Bobby Jackson is anything more than an expiring contract to Sacramento. Relying on him to be a positive presence in the locker room seems a little ridiculous, considering he wasn’t even happy in New Orleans playing behind Chris Paul…

I guess it just comes down to your preference between Donte Greene or Brandon Bass. And if you’d rather have Greene, more power to you. Having seen him a TON throughout high school and college, I don’t see an NBA star. I don’t see Rashard Lewis. I see Quentin Richardson…

by N41D on Jul 30, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

And all that said...

I couldn’t care less about losing out on Artest.

There’s really nothing the Mavs could have done to change that. If the Kings like Donte Greene better than Bass, so be it. If they’ve got faith that Jason Thompson or Spencer Hawes will be productive NBA players, so be it. If they feel like Sheldan Williams can be Jason Maxiell, Brandon Bass, etc., so be it. I don’t see it. I’m not overwhelmed by Hawes or Greene.

So be it. The Mavs tried. I don’t see a huge difference between Jackson/Greene and Stackhouse/Bass. Other than a pick in the 28-30 range in what looks to be a terribly weak draft, those packages aren’t very far apart. At all.

But it is what it is. They decided they liked one expiring contract and tweener forward better than another.

Now the Mavs just have to figure out what’s next.

by N41D on Jul 30, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

depends

I couldn’t care less about losing out on Artest.

If the mavs are to get an Artest caliper player within the near future in a similar type of trade that was proposed with the Kings and that happened with the Rockets-Kings, of course we will all look back on this with laughs and possibly regrets for acting irrationally… but until then, I care.

I care because going after him shows the Mavs front office cares. I dont know that the Mavs cared enough to explore other options in getting Artest without Howard… but I hope I am wrong. I know they are saying all the right things, lets just hope something comes of it.

by Toddy on Jul 30, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up 0 recs