The greatest Mavericks ever?
by jonthefon on Mar 13, 2009 3:37 AM CDT
33 comments
Me getting sentimental again. Remember, this is not the "all-time Mavs lineup": it is more just an assortment of the players who have served this franchise the best.
Again, this is just my personal list and it's kind of exclusive, feel free to add guys to the discussion:
Rolando Blackman: A great shooter and scorer, 4-time All-Star while in Dallas, including two clutch game-tying free throws in the '87 All-Star Game (confidence, baby!). Mavs' leader in scoring by a long margin until Dirk showed up. All-round good guy, dealt to the Knicks as part of the 90s rebuilding phase and was a game away (or maybe a Hakeem Olajuwon blocked shot away) from earning a ring that he probably deserved. #22 was retired in 2000.
Brad Davis: Never put up great figures but epitomised "fan favourite" on those high-scoring Mavs teams. Everyone knows about the moustache he had and of course he was the first Mav to have his number retired. Still out and about these days in Big D as an analyst and in development.
Derek Harper: Started on the 80s Mavs' teams: an able scorer and passer, but a very good defender. Probably unlucky not to earn a trip to the All-Star Game in his career but he performed enough for the franchise to earn a spot here.
Michael Finley: The most underappreciated Mav ever. He carried the load on a couple of mediocre Mavs teams and did the same while Dirk and Steve developed. Big shots all over. Then he stepped graciously back to second or third-fiddle, and stepped up when he was needed. Case in point: his 31 with Dirk out, fueled the Mavs' big comeback in Game 5 of the 2003 WCF when they looked down and out: his ridiculous fadeaway over Tony Parker to beat the shot clock was probably the dagger. In his last two seasons in Dallas, he was a little niggling to watch as he stepped back to the three-point line and didn't really attack the basket as Mavs' fans had previously seen him done. The Allan Houston rule meant his days were numbered in Dallas: I don't blame his decision to sign with the Spurs to have a chance at getting a ring. Most Dallas fans appreciated that. But apparently, Mark Cuban didn't. Yes, he signed with the @%*$ing Spurs, but Mark throwing Fin under the bus by organising a boo campaign was sickening. Nevertheless, Fin still should go down as one of the great Mavs: great dunker, deadly from the perimeter, classy when the franchise needed him to be.
Dirk Nowitzki: I'm pretty sure we're all familiar with him. Possibly the greatest ever Mav, but that's probably modern bias. Won't go too deep in with him, we all know that he's a helluva player. Already the franchise's leading scorer, generally brilliant in the playoffs, an absolute certainty to have his number retired, very likely to spend his entire career in Big D, and quite likely to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Only problem was the D, but then again, not many Mavs have been known for their defence.
Mark Aguirre: I thought a while about this. I guess based on his stats, Aguirre would've been a dead certainty for this list. He was a dominant scorer both inside and from mid-range, was always near the top of the league in terms of scoring, combined with Ro and co. for the 80s Mavs' playoffs and went to multiple All-Star games. But he won his rings in Detroit and apparently, in his final years in Dallas was a polarizing figure among fans and being traded to the Pistons didn't exactly cause a whole lot of grief at Reunion Arena. But he's on the list, because it really has to be said that he did a lot of mileage in the 80s for the Mavs.
Right now, that's probably all I can think of "deserving" to make my list. Any others I might have missed out on? Coaches? Dick Motta perhaps? Announcers?
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Dirk
I’d like to hear why he’s only “quite possibly” the greatest Mav ever. I can’t see how there is a debate on that.
I’m also a little surprised by no mention of the MANTIS.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 13, 2009 9:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm willing to put Ro alongside Dirk right now
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
by jonthefon on Mar 13, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Mar 14, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Announcers
I loved me some Jim Durham. I was pretty sad to see him go, but since he went to ESPN, I figured I’d still get to hear him. Unfortunately ESPN stuck him on the radio and I think the C or D team, if there is such a thing, for TV broadcasts. …So I still never get to hear him, even though he’s a hell of a lot better than ESPN’s feature crews (Cough Mike Tirico *Cough*).
But since we’re going greatest of all time, I guess you have to throw Ortegel in there for longevity and overall intelligence.
by MeanMr.Mustard on Mar 13, 2009 10:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Ortegel is a no doubter
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on Mar 13, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob's awesome...
one of the few analysts that actually, you know, analyzes what’s going on. I’d take him over a former player any day.
by MeanMr.Mustard on Mar 15, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mike iuzzolino
"Daryl (Morey, the Rockets general manager) and I were talking this morning. We both discussed how great Tracy is in the playoffs. There's very few people who have the ability to step up their games in the playoffs and he does. So we're not looking to run away from Tracy." - Houston Rockets Owner, Leslie Alexander
muhahahaha WTF?!?!
by zkmavz on Mar 13, 2009 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Aguirre has to be on the list.
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on Mar 13, 2009 11:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Where does Jason Terry fit into all of this?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Mar 13, 2009 11:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If this discussion is a house...
Jason Terry is across the street with binoculars looking through the windows trying to see who’s at the party…
He doesn’t belong…
by N41D on Mar 15, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saying
Some would argue he has been the 2nd best player during the greatest era of Mavericks basketball.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Mar 17, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I sure hope you're not one of them,
because Terry is not better than Finley in his prime.
S-St. Louis, R-Rams, D-Dallas, M-Mavericks, A-Arizona, D-Diamondbacks.
by srdmad on Mar 18, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dirk number 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
S-St. Louis, R-Rams, D-Dallas, M-Mavericks, A-Arizona, D-Diamondbacks.
by srdmad on Mar 13, 2009 12:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
some consideration
if you were to expand to top 10 or 15
steve nash played 6 seasons for the mavs. once he became a full time minute eating starter in 2000, the mavs started their playoff run. a 2 time allstar with dallas, he averaged about 16 points and 8 assists those last 3 seasons. he does not know how to miss a free throw and has an excellent fg% for a point guard.
jason kidd. not sure how he could NOT be on the list. i know brad davis is a fan favorite, but he surely isn’t “great”. kidd brough home a rookie of the year award. an all star game. numerous triple doubles. and is a great defender along with being a top distributer.
james donaldson wasn’t great, but he was probably a top center for the mavs in their history. at 7’2" he’s certainly the best 7 footer. over 4 full seasons plus 2 half seasons he averaged about 8 points, 9 rebounds, and a block and a half. he shot about 55% from the field. those numbers are similar to shawn bradley’s peak, except donaldson did those numbers will playing significant minutes for playoff teams (4 appearances) AND an all star game (i think he’s the only mav center to play in all star game)
roy tarpley, oh what could have been.
sam perkins was a 6’9" forward for the mavs for 6 seasons, 5 playoff appearances. he averaged about 14 ppg, 8 rpg, 1 bpg and 1 spg, add to that a .820ish ft% and 475ish fg%.
Omar Vizquel: your starting shortstop for the 2009 AL all-star team.
by gossamer on Mar 13, 2009 1:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Goddammit
I was typing a reply but I got sidetracked.
Basically, I made my list out of players who spent a long time in Dallas, and was best known for what they did in a Mavs uniform. The criteria was pretty exclusive:
Nash: Got his break in Dallas, four good seasons, made two All-Star teams and quaterbacked a great offence, but he certainly had his better years in Phoenix. Those first two years weren’t much.
Kidd: Two-and-a-half years in his first stint with the Mavs. Yes, he made the All-Star team then and had a shitload of triple-doubles, but again, he achieved most of his success in New Jersey. Add this current tenure, he’s only spent about three-and-a-half seasons in a Mavs uni.
Donaldson: Probably the most viable option out of the guys you listed. Six good seasons putting up solid 10/10 figures, and an All-Star game. Only Mavs center to? Alongside Chris Gatling (hehe), that is. But I supposed he could be considered.
Tarpley: A waste of space. He was probably the last piece of the 80s Mavs championship puzzle, but he went and blew his talent on drugs.
Perkins: Six years in Dallas, but he also did pretty well at the Lakers and was part of the 90s Sonics teams alongside Payton, Hawkins, Schrempf and Kemp. I’m not sure he’s earned enough.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
by jonthefon on Mar 13, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't know
that they had to have all their best years as a mav (perkins nash and kidd)
i think if you were to assemble a 12 man rotation of guys that spent at lest 3 prime (or near prime) of their careers as a mav, donaldson OR dampier would be the starter while the other would come off the bench. i think bradley would have been 3rd though…
i think sam perkins should be reconsidered though. look at his numbers with the lakers and sonics and he definitely had his best years as a maverick.
Omar Vizquel: your starting shortstop for the 2009 AL all-star team.
by gossamer on Mar 13, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
the topic name is rather misleading, but basically I’m keeping it to the players who have made a significant impact to this franchise. Not too many guys have.
If it were the case of making the all-time Mavs team, Nash and Kidd would be in there. Donaldson would be a dead cert.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
by jonthefon on Mar 13, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Detlef?
Wasn’t he a Mav?
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Mar 13, 2009 4:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if you have detlef
might as well add tony dumas or lucious harris
Omar Vizquel: your starting shortstop for the 2009 AL all-star team.
by gossamer on Mar 13, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just remember the Detlef of Sonics glory.
He was a top SF then. I don’t remember him as a Mav. Did he suck or something?
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Mar 14, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, he didn't suck
but he was a role player. he was a 25 mpg, 8 ppg and 3 rpg. he was like antoine wright i guess. only he wasn’t in for his defense
Omar Vizquel: your starting shortstop for the 2009 AL all-star team.
by gossamer on Mar 16, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a decent Mav, but the best years of his career were in Indiana. Back to back 6th Man Awards.
"Just make up your mind at the very outset that your work is going to stand for quality... that you are going to stamp a superior quality upon everything that goes out of your hands, that whatever you do shall bear the hallmark of excellence." - Orison Swett Marden
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by Ed (dfjmed) on Mar 16, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was a loaded team
Dale Ellis and Detlef off the bench! That is crazy depth!
by mrichardson70 on Mar 16, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill Wennington, Uwe Blab, Dennis Rodman.
"Just make up your mind at the very outset that your work is going to stand for quality... that you are going to stamp a superior quality upon everything that goes out of your hands, that whatever you do shall bear the hallmark of excellence." - Orison Swett Marden
http://myspace.com/eme0916
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=569220294&ref=profile
by Ed (dfjmed) on Mar 15, 2009 3:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am going with Dirk because he has such and unusual game. I am surprised Derek Harper didn’t get more love. He was a really good PG for his day, if not for running out the clock to force OT against the Lakers (well you never know)!
by mrichardson70 on Mar 16, 2009 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
so all time mavs team
if we pick players that played at least 210 game (equivalent to 3 70 game seasons) would be something like (not including this season). i took into account games played as a maverick. parenthesis after the player denotes all time player rank
pg derek harper (3)
sg rolando blackman (2)
sf michael finley (4)
pf dirk nowitzki (1)
c james donaldson (10)
f mark aguire (5)
pg brad davis (6)
sf/pf sam perkins (7)
pg steve nash (8)
sg jim spanokel (9)
c shawn bradley (11)
sg/pg jason terry (12)
just missing the cut (in order)
sf/sg josh howard (13)
sg/sf jim jackson (14)
sf/pf jay vincent (15)
c erick dampier (16)
sf/pf detlef schrempf (17)
pf popey jones (18)
Omar Vizquel: your starting shortstop for the 2009 AL all-star team.
by gossamer on Mar 16, 2009 10:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
pretty close
to what dmn has
http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/09/the-official-dmn-alltime-mavericks-team.html
their starters are:
donaldson
dirk
aguire
blackman
harper
with backups being
damp
perkins
j-ho
finley
nash
i had damp just out of the list, but i can certainly understand hatred for the king of the highlight film and illegal defense calls.
outside of the top 10, the 11 and 12 spot is hard to figure out. the mavs don’t have a great history. as much as we may hate it, jerry stackhouse may certainly warrent some consideration as well.
Omar Vizquel: your starting shortstop for the 2009 AL all-star team.
by gossamer on Mar 17, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am confused about Shawn Bradley's exclusion from this list
He got a triple double before Dirk did, so surely that means he is right alongside these greats :)
'Cause I'm a high plains drifter, the best that you can get
A strapped shoplifter, a pirate on cassette
by Marie on Mar 17, 2009 7:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i actually have
bradley as the #11 mav all time. a lot of that is due to the amount of games he played for dallas, but he put up similar stats to dampier with more blocks.
Omar Vizquel: your starting shortstop for the 2009 AL all-star team.
by gossamer on Mar 17, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ignore my all time team above
here is a better list. i looked up (maybe missed a player or 2) and found 32 players that played in at least 210 games as a maverick (equal to 3 seasons of 70 games). if you look at just stats (not playoff appearances, awards, all stars) and games played, you come up with an order of the top mavs looking something like this:
pf Dirk Nowitzki
sf/sg michael finley
pg derek harper
sg/sf rolando blackman
sf mark aguire
pf sam perkins
pg brad davis
pg steve nash
c james donaldson
sf/sg josh howard
c shawn bradley
sf/pf jay vincent
sg/pg jason terry
sg/sf jim jackson
c erick dampier
sg jim spanarkel
pf popey jones
sf/pf detlef schrempf
pf/c roy tarpley
c kurt nimphius
pg devin harris
pg jason kidd
c herb williams
sf jamal mashburn
sg/sf jerry stackhouse
sg hubert davis
c desagana diop
pf terry davis
pf/sf randy white
sg lucious harris
pf/c donald hodge
c bill wennington
Omar Vizquel: your starting shortstop for the 2009 AL all-star team.
by gossamer on Mar 17, 2009 6:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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