" The Buck Shot " and Odom

by aaronp on Jul 14, 2009 7:10 PM CDT

Apparently we still have the " Stack Chip" its just called the " Buck Shot" and we could get Odom for Buckner and Barea.

Check out link below

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1835

somebody posted this trade scenario in one of the comments cant find it now but I gotta give them props it would be a nice trade if Redd could stay healthy!!

Check out link below

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nd5a8e

And with either of those deals we would still have the MLE...Wilcox? Mason?

Poll

Which deal sounds better to you and would be better for the Mavs ?

Redd and Camby

83 votes

Odom

26 votes

109 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

You forgot neither.

by octoberty on Jul 14, 2009 7:22 PM CDT reply actions

as in "this will never happen?"

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 14, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions

As in, I don't want to touch Redd.

Camby I am most definitely interested in, though. Odom, I don’t know, doesn’t do much for me.

by octoberty on Jul 14, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions

man. that's a tough one.

I’d take Redd no matter what. And a package deal somehow, of Redd AND Camby?

wow.

"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 15, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions

I like Camby but the guy hunts for shots,

which could hurt us being he should then be the fifth option behind, Dirk, Redd, Marion, Jet, then maybe Camby

"We play to win the game" - Herm Edwards

by nicholas.rodriguez on Jul 15, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions

+1

S-St. Louis, R-Rams, D-Dallas, M-Mavericks, A-Arizona, D-Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Jul 14, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Can we stop linking to DB.com?

If we wanted something from over there we would have just gone there.

I’m a white boy who doesn’t think a black man is good enough to manage my baseball team.-Lonestarjon

by AirJordan on Jul 14, 2009 7:26 PM CDT reply actions

Some of us don't go to that site.

So if something interesting is on there someone puts the link, so we can read about it.

S-St. Louis, R-Rams, D-Dallas, M-Mavericks, A-Arizona, D-Diamondbacks.

by srdmad on Jul 14, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Meh...

I like the content over there, but I absolutely avoid their boards like the plague…

I like when people here link over there and we can discuss things without having all the idiots you get over there involved…

by N41D on Jul 14, 2009 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions

You seriously want to give up Howard and Damp for an injury prone Redd and Camby? I think we can do better if we hold out til next summer and maneuver a sign and trade with the Damp chip. As far as Odom goes, if we could actually get him for JJB and Buck, why not? But it will NEVER happen.

by smg31085 on Jul 14, 2009 8:30 PM CDT reply actions

DB .COM

they do have some interesting stuff over there…sorry air jordan I figured maybe some of the Mavs Moneyball readers might not be aware of the site and might find it intersting since its Mavs related and this is a Mavs blog also me just saying hey Buckner and Barea could be traded etc. with no backing of how the numbers would work etc, would be reduntant also taking somebody elses thoughts and research and making them my own would be kind of crappy hence the links to the actual story…also in blogs diversified thinking strikes converstion through comments etc. which lead to more traffic which leads to better rankings in the search engines for mavs moneyball…

as far as db com they actually seem right on point with what the Dallas Mavericks might actually do…If I am not mistaken they were the first to speculate on Marion and it actually materialized…i imagine this was because of a tremendous amount of experience on how nba finances work and experience in dealing with the mavs. So i woudnt be to quick to say its not feasible and thats not me agreeing with them one way or another.

All warfare is based on deception.

by aaronp on Jul 14, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions

I'd do something for Odom...

But not if it included Howard…

As for Redd and Camby… No.

by N41D on Jul 14, 2009 8:48 PM CDT reply actions

That you even remotely think the Lakers will take Bucker and Barea for Odom...

Is downright hilarious. Dallas has virtually no assets (besides Dirk) that LA would consider in return for Odom.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Jul 15, 2009 1:13 AM CDT reply actions

Yeah...

Because if Dallas offered Howard, Mitch would laugh Cuban off the phone…

by N41D on Jul 15, 2009 9:16 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions

Odom isn't LA's.

by octoberty on Jul 15, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions

not exactly

he is an URFA, so he can sign with any team he wants. The stick point is he wants $10 million a year (or to start the first year). The only team that can offer that is Los Angeles. The only other teams that can come close is Oklahoma City and Portland. OKC is already out of the mix for numerous reasons (team quality, location, doesn’t want to lock up that much money before their youth comes due). Portland can only offer $9 million, and that’s only if Utah matches the Millsap offer sheet (which most expect they will).

So Odom’s only option, if he chooses to ignore LA’s offers, is to seek a sign and trade with another franchise. And that only works if LA is willing to participate. Most likely, LA will stand firm and demand equal talent at low cost in return, because they believe that Odom will NOT take the MLE to play elsewhere. If LA does not participate in a S&T, then that’s Odom’s only other option.

Simply put, Odom is between a rock and a hard place. He’s now stalling hoping to get an offer from Portland to force LA’s hand (which is possible)…. or a S&T offer to get the money he wants and put this mess behind him. However, any S&T offer is going to probably put off Lakers management, and burn all bridges between the two sides, preventing LO from crawling back if LA refuses, forcing him to accept playing in either Portland… or Miami/Dallas for the MLE.

Make a choice Odom. Make the right one.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 15, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions

Why would a S&T offer burn all bridges in LALA?

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions

because a S&T offer means

a player has agreed in principle to sign a deal with an opposing team. That tells LA he doesn’t want to come back.

LA has several options there.

A) Take back enough talent, regardless of salary
B) Take back enough talent, but being careful of what salary comes in (ie, get ahold of some expiring contracts)
C) Refuse to participate and force Odom to take a MLE deal, in the interest of also saving money (since that seems to be the sticking point).

The final option I’m sure is something Odom and his agent are worried about, because if LA refuses to participate, Odom is now stuck with only two options:

A) Take a MLE exception offer (a $10 million paycut)
B) Take an offer from Portland for $9 million

The problem with the Portland offer is it’s not in a location he wants to play, and it’s essentially the same money as what he could have gotten from LA, which makes this whole process intellectually bankrupt.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 15, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

Does Portland have an offer on the table?

I don’t think they do. At least not until Paul Millsap’s future is cleared up.

by octoberty on Jul 15, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions

they don't

but it’s widely expected that Utah will match.

In most Portland circles, I’m sure they’d rather not have Millsap at that cost. But I believe they are willing to pay the high first year contract, then try to ship him out the next season at a reasonable $6 (or $7) million yearly salary that year. If anything, the Millsap offer was merely to put pressure on Utah, and to try and get into a trade setup that got them a player they really wanted.

That being said, once Utah matches, Portland will likely extend an offer to Odom, to once again put pressure on a rival.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 15, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions

I'm not sure if Pritchard wants Odom's personality on his young roster.

by octoberty on Jul 15, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions

what personality?

candy loving? I could imagine that having an undesirable effect around all those kids…

j/k :)

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 15, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions

I still don’t see how that would piss off the Lakers. Teams shop their players in trades all the time, so why can’t a player shop himself? It’s just business. Now I can understand the Lakers not wanting to do a sign and trade with a rival. But if it’s a choice between LO going to a divisional rival OR getting something back, saving some money, and sending him to an out of division conference rival then the Lakers might want to consider it. I’m sure their first choice is to send him to the Eastern conference in a S&T but I don’t know if that is an option.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions

that is likely

this is really a game of chicken. who holds the cards? Some say Odom does, because LA cannot find anyone, even in a S&T, that replaces what Odom brings to the table. Others say LA does, because Odom cannot find the money he wants in a location he wants.

But based off recent moves by Mitch, this team is also interested in saving money, and is playing hardball with it’s players. I only wish they had grown these balls last season during the Bynum extension negotiations.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 15, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions

Lets not forget...

State income taxes in California. There are none in Texas. Basically the Mavs could offer around $6.5 million a year and be comparable to $10 million in LA. There is no state tax in Florida for that matter.

by STLmavsfan on Jul 15, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions

not even close

What do you think state taxes in California are? 30%?

State taxes in Cali are about 10.8% for an individual who makes over $1 million.

Also, a player pays state taxes based on where the game is played, not based on where his business’ headquarters are.

Here’s the breakdown.

The Lakers play 47 games in California (41 home, 2 each against the Clippers, Kings, and Warriors). The Lakers play 6 games in Texas, and 2 in Florida. Total games that are state-taxed is 74.

The Mavericks play 45 games in Texas, plus two more games in Florida, for 47 un-taxed games. State-taxed games comes to 35.

Now let’s assume, for ease of argument, and to place a high limit on the numbers, that every state has a 10% state income tax.

So let’s say the Lakers pay Odom $10 million. A $10 million dollar contract is broken down into $121,951.22 per game. The tax cost is $12,195.12 per game. Now, as established, the Lakers play at most 74 games that are state-taxed. Total cost is of taxes is $902,438.88 over the course of the season.

Now, let’s take two scenarios. The Mavs pay Odom $6.5 million, and $10 million as the other scenario. Remember, the Mavs have 35 taxed games in the season.

In scenario one ($6.5 million), Odom receives $79,268.29 per game. Tax cost is $7,926.83 per game. Total cost is $277,439.05 for the season.

In scenario two ($10 million), A Odom’s total cost for away games is $426,829.20 over the course of the season.

Ok, so now the grand totals.

Lakers: Odom receives $9,097,561.12 after state taxes (but before federal taxes, agent fees, etc.)
Mavs: Scenario 1 pays Odom $6,222,560.95 while Scenario 2 pays him $9,573,170.80.

As you can see, there is no significant gain by avoiding state income taxes. Their alot lower than you think. To counter any contracts from Florida or Texas, teams merely need to add about 10-12% more to the yearly totals on the contract to counter-act the “no state-income tax” argument.

"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)

by tandur on Jul 15, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions

I came up with the Redd and Camby trade in the Redd thread below

It costs almost all the tradeable assets the Mavs have and would completely kill any flexibility for this season and the summer of 2010. Having said that, I still think it’s worth it IF (and it’s a big if) Redd is healthy.

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by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2009 8:31 AM CDT reply actions

I should also mention that Redd and Camby can be done separately. Howard for Camby works straight up. This means you can get Odom and Camby if the Buck + Barea S&T works for LALA (which I doubt). Kaman can also be substitued for Camby but I wouldn’t do that unless they added something significant (like future first round draft picks that knowing the Clippers will likely be top 5)

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions

Odom....

I would like to get the best player still available in FA & I think Odom is almost definitely that guy. Given that Shawn Marion is now a Mav though, how would Odom fit into the line-up? It seems like we’d kind of have an allstar-caliber logjam at the 3 & 4 (which is great) but with a gaping hole at the 5 & to some degree the 2. Odom’s size & numbers are comparable to Okafor. Would Dallas actually consider playing him at center if they got him?

by newkidd07 on Jul 15, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions

Think small ball...

The Celtics and the Lakers won titles playing small ball. You have Kidd (1) Howard (2) Marion (3) Odom (4) Dirk (5) and you have an unstoppable offense. Not bad defensively either. You can rotate Dampier in at the 5, moving Dirk, Marion or Odom to the 4, Terry in at the 2 etc… Maybe Odom at the 5.

Sounds like a scary lineup to me. I love it

by STLmavsfan on Jul 15, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions

As intriguing as I think it is to play Dirk at the 5

I don’t think he’s got the low post game to be successful there. If they get Odom, that will mean a trade of Howard IMO, probably for a center. I know this may sound crazy, but I think Dirk makes a better 2 than a 5.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree...

Dirk is definitely a 2 in a 5’s body. Dirk does play the 5 at times though, and I think if the tempo is right his post game will be sufficient. Maybe not. For that matter, Odom played some strong minutes at the 5 when Bynum was out. Just an idea.

by STLmavsfan on Jul 15, 2009 12:41 PM CDT reply actions

Playing the 5 occasionally is completely different than starting every game at the 5. Dirk’s ability to play multiple positions is one of the things that make him great, but he’s not a starting center in the NBA.

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by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah but....

I think Dirk at the 5 would cause match-up problems in the Mavs’ favor on the offensive end since most centers are too slow to consistently get out on Dirk’s J but my question would be how you would play that line-up on the other end.

Take the Spurds for example, Their front court would not be able to contain a dose of Dirk & Odom but then they’d just pound it in at the other end all day with that ugly boring game they love to play. That to me is why we’ve been so dominant over them for a few years cuz Diop/Dampier did a good enough defensive job on their bigs & Dirk balanced them out on the other end.

I do see where it would offer Dallas more versatility & I would love to see Kidd dishing out to such a small, athletic team. I just don’t want to see the Mavs turned into a gimmick like the Suns of a few years ago.

by newkidd07 on Jul 15, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions

I totally agree with this

I’m pinning the Mavs hopes next season on a Camby acquisition. It’s the only way they have any chance of going deep in the playoffs as far as I can see. Odom would be nice, but I don’t think adding him to the current roster will make all that much difference in the playoffs. The Mavs really need to upgrade the 5 and everything else will fall into place.

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by DerekSTheRed on Jul 15, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

I didn’t necessarily mean that as the starting line. I just like that option. The offense would be incredible. I think Odom may be a better choice to play the 5 in that scenario though. Truth is I like Odom, I like his versatility, but I don’t like the idea of trading Howard. I would ultimately like to pick up Odom and let him take over Bass’ minutes rotating with Dirk at the 4, Damp at the 5, but he can also rotate at the 3 with Marion. He’s a utility guy, that can get his minutes and allow us to keep two solid big men on the floor at all times. We also maintain that small ball lineup that can be a good offensive punch in the right situation. If it doesn’t work out, we still have several expiring contracts at the end of this year and some serious trade bait.

by STLmavsfan on Jul 15, 2009 1:53 PM CDT reply actions