Rumor: Mavs are negotiating a sign-and-trade for Shawn Marion.
by DitchThePlaybook on Jul 6, 2009 9:19 PM CDT
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PrintKen Berger of CBS Sports reports.....
After reports of resigning Kidd to a 3-year, $25 million contract, it appears that Mark Cuban and Marion's agent Dan Fegan are pushing for the trade to involve either Memphis or Oklahoma City as a third team in order to help the Raptors clear cap space for the newly-acquired Hedo Turkoglu.
Berger also reports that Jerry Stackhouse would likely be involved with the trade. More details and wild speculation from the BergerSphere can be found here.
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Marc Stein is also reporting it
What do you guys think? Marion can still grab 10 boards and catch lobs, right? Hmmm….
You beat me to it lol.
So, if we get Marion…who moves to sg, him or Howard?
gotta imagine howard would. ugh. like he needs another reason to heave those dumb jumpers.
I mean, I guess it would just be a guy who you know, grabs bananas and runs. Or, um, a banana that grabs things. I don’t know. Why would a banana grab another banana? I mean, those are the kind of questions I don’t want to answer.
i think they’ll end up playing a lot of small ball with Terry, Kidd, Howard, Marion at PF and Dirk.
by homer simpson on Jul 6, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I saw this idea being floated on dallasbasketball.com earlier today...
And they seemed to think that Marion was just a stepping stone towards getting a younger wing. Jeff Green maybe? or one of Memphis’ young swing guys? Could work out nicely either way. And of they do take Marion, they could let Josh play at the 2, or simply trade him.
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
doubt it. makes no sense for Memphis or OKC. trade a young wing on a rookie deal for a geezer on a 8 figure deal?
by homer simpson on Jul 6, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably not...
I was just relating what I’d read. Honestly, I think it’s a good deal. Marion isn’t the high-flier he used to be, but he gives them enormous flexibility in the lineup with his ability to play both forward spots and defend multiple positions. And it still leaves them with the Damp contract to trade, and gives them someone who can take Josh’s spot if the right deal comes up for him.
I could see the small lineup you mentioned being played fairly often, but if Gortat is the player I think he is, it’ll be as a change of pace rather than a staple of the offense.
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 6, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting Jeff Green
in a deal involving Marion is a complete pipe dream, but it’s still awesome to imagine it happening.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
ah. what spot do you think they should go for in a Dampier trade? back court?
by homer simpson on Jul 7, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
You completely misunderstood!
Memphis of OKC would be in the deal only for an additional draft pick. They would lose cap space for one year, but get a 2nd round draft pick from Toronto. Toronto would gain cap space needed to buy out Stack and the additional $5MM after the buyout to sign Hedo. Dallas would then get Marion.
hmm
pg-kidd
sg/sf-jho
sf/pf-marion
pf-dirk
c- gortat
pg-barea
sg/pg-terry
c-damp
decent 8 man rotation. not gonna get it done, unless you get lucky in the 2nd round of the playoffs, and the west conference finals team has an injury.
Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan was on the same pitching staff with Danny Darwin during the 1986 through 1988 seasons. Both were described by Milo Hamilton as "tall, tough Texans." It was a source of debate amongst Astros players and fans over who would win in a fight, Ryan or Darwin. Though Astros pitcher Bob Knepper attempted to set up a fight between the two during spring training in 1988, manager Hal Lanier stopped it before it could commence. Many experts, including Astros shortstop Rafael Ramirez, felt that Darwin would win because he "looked like someone no man would want to mess with."
how can you say that?
I still don’t get it. In my opinion, we drastically improve at the SG and C positions, and Kidd has two new “oop” toys to play with. We’re going to be just as tough to defend against as any offensive team in the league, and our defense is drastically improved, too – Gortat and Marion are above average defenders. Marion can guard any wing in the league – maybe not shut them down, but guard them.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 7, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
i can say that
because there are still the lakers and the spurs and the nuggets to deal with
Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan was on the same pitching staff with Danny Darwin during the 1986 through 1988 seasons. Both were described by Milo Hamilton as "tall, tough Texans." It was a source of debate amongst Astros players and fans over who would win in a fight, Ryan or Darwin. Though Astros pitcher Bob Knepper attempted to set up a fight between the two during spring training in 1988, manager Hal Lanier stopped it before it could commence. Many experts, including Astros shortstop Rafael Ramirez, felt that Darwin would win because he "looked like someone no man would want to mess with."
oooooh the mighty Spurs!
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 7, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
sure
the mavs beat them, but they didn’t have ginobli. and they just added richard jefferson.
Hall of Fame pitcher Nolan Ryan was on the same pitching staff with Danny Darwin during the 1986 through 1988 seasons. Both were described by Milo Hamilton as "tall, tough Texans." It was a source of debate amongst Astros players and fans over who would win in a fight, Ryan or Darwin. Though Astros pitcher Bob Knepper attempted to set up a fight between the two during spring training in 1988, manager Hal Lanier stopped it before it could commence. Many experts, including Astros shortstop Rafael Ramirez, felt that Darwin would win because he "looked like someone no man would want to mess with."
I see your point
but I still don’t think they have it anymore. Regardless of getting Manu back. I’m sorry, but they NEVER lost in the 1st round with Duncan. And it’s not like they were lacking with assistance, Parker was an MVP candidate during the 1st round. They lost a few guys that probably weren’t great players, but were a part of their recent run, and replaced them with (maybe) healthy Manu and Richard Jefferson. So now with Parker, Manu, Jefferson, Duncan and a live body at C they have a pretty decent starting 5, but aside from Roger Mason and the hopes that George Hill takes a big step forward, their depth is NIL. All it takes is one more injury to Manu or any of the other starters and they’re a 1st round exit again. And I could be proven wrong, but I do not consider Blair’s rookie campaign to be a huge addition to their team.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 7, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I like it...
Wonder if they’d still bring back Bass… That’d make for a pretty solid 9-man rotation…
DMN basically says $3.5 mil
and Bass is ours
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 7, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd like the team to get Marion
I don’t think his underperforming is a direct result of his age, just his playing for Miami and Toronto. I think we could see the old Shawn Marion when he’s with the Mavs.
2009 Dallas Cowboys: 10-6
I could see 15 ppg and 10 rpg
with above average defense…and really, that’s all we need. If Josh is our SG, and Gortat produces along the lines of 12 pgg and 10 rpg, with above average defense as well, we’re a team to be reckoned with…and a strong bench.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 7, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
lakers vs. dallas
pau vs. gortat -this is match gortat is a great defender also look at lebron hes quicker but gortat block’s hes shot
odom vs. dirk-dirk is unstoppable in offense
artest vs. marion-both are good defenders
bryant vs. josh-bryant is ahead but let see if josh plays healthy
fisher vs. kidd-let see this….kidd is a great passer,he can also score,buzzer beating also like fisher,he can steal whenever that he is old…well let see
as for now if they get marion mavericks can be a contender…dont under estimate the mavs …if they re-sign bass thats good…bass is also a good help offense and defense
they only need is a good center whenever that they have gortat ..i dont like dampier i just want mavs to add a center…trade dampier,stackhouse,devean george,singleton….center like-camby/kaman is hes healthy/or andersen plus a sg-like hamilton or sf like prince…
let go mavs we will make it this time…the legacy of dirk is here now @ 09-2010 play-offs
I wouldn't mind Marion here; I think he needs a good PG to be effective and we have that in Kidd
My only concern has been brought up already, which is who will move to the 2 spot
Yay, Roger!
Josh would do fine at the 2 guard spot...
He was always a little small at the three, and playing against guards might help stay him healthy.
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 7, 2009 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Not a chance!
Josh Howard will never be a full-time starter at SG. If the Mavs can have both Howard and Marion on the same team, one of them will come off the bench (probably Marion). But that scenario is very unlikely. One of the two would definitely be moved for something else.
However, if we got both and both stayed, you might see Howard at the SG spot at times, but it certainly wouldn’t be a full-time gig.
not saying they'll definitely both stay
but if Marion and Josh are on the same team, one is NOT coming off the bench. Josh WILL be a full time SG.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 7, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course Josh could play SG...
He’s long and lean at 6-7, and is perfectly capable of moving between the 2 and the 3 any time he chooses. Why would you possibly think he couldn’t?
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 7, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
SHOOTING guard
may have something to do with it. Considering that he’s a 34% 3pt shooter and only 30% in the POs. He’s not as quick as he used to be, so guarding quicker, smaller SG will be a problem night in and night out. He plays like a F, not a G. Sure he’ll breate matchup problems occasionally, but I’m afraid our offense will really be hurting without a real 3pt threat on the floor. Teams would be more likely to sag on Dirk.
so by definition a SG has to be a 40% or better 3 point shooter?
that’s ridiculous.
He’s been a 19 ppg scorer over the past 3 years, averaging .455 FG% and a respectable .350 3 pt %.
Here are some names that had worse 3 pt % than Howard last year: LeBron, Manu, Wade, Monta Ellis, Iguodala, Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace, Russell Westbrook, Corey Maggette – would you let any of those guys start on your team at SG if we had them and Shawn Marion?
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Why are any of those people relevant to this discussion?
Nice smorgasbord of different positions, though. Thank you. What’s ridiculous is assuming that both the style of play and lack of a consistent long-range shooter (which is exactly what would happen) is irrelevant.
Every lineup has certain weaknesses...
But almost none would have the versatility of a Dirk, Marion, Gortat, Howard, and Kidd starting five, with smaller guys like Terry and JJB coming off the bench.
If you focus exclusively on the negative aspects of any proposition, it’s easy to find fault with everything. Can you honestly tell me that Dallas would be worse off by adding a four time All-Star who can play multiple positions, and is still one of the better defensive players and rebounders in the league?
As for shooting percentages (expanding on the excellent point that Walter Sobchak made), Howard has an almost identical career 3pt% as Rip Hamilton (.345 vs .349), and their numbers from last season were practically indistinguishable.
Does that mean that Rip can’t be a 2 guard here either?
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 8, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Touche'
But you know as well as I do that Rip is more of a shooter, Howard is more of a slasher (generally speaking.)
I agree that adding Marion would really upgrade our roster. I also agree that we would be really versatile. However, consider this, was Terry a starter last year? Not technically, but he was a finisher at the SG spot. If we have Marion and Howard and Terry, who then, sits at the end? Terry? Marion? Howard? Dirk? Kidd? Gortat?
We will need Gortat for defensive purposes late in games. We probably need Marion AND Howard for the same reason. But we need Kidd, Terry and Dirk on Offense. So who sits? See the delimna?
duch dilemnas are my dream
let’s see what happens with the full roster before we conclude
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
such - not duch
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
As I've said before, the lineup would change depending on the sitiuation...
My point is simply is that it’s odd of you to say that a trade for Rip is a dream, while also saying that Josh playing the 2 is unthinkable, when the two of them put up nearly identical shooting numbers last season. Seriously, which one is which?
Player 1: 15.6 shots per game, 44.7% from the field. 2.8 three pointers per game 36.8% from three.
Player 2: 15.1 shots per game, 45.1% from the field. 3.2 three pointers per game, 34.5% from three.
Not only that, Josh is bigger, stronger, younger, a better rebounder, and is signed for less money over fewer years.
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 8, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point
I see the error in my logic and now I would agree with you.
Although...
that’s a great delimna to have. I’m not opposed to the Marion deal. I’m just curious, and questioning, how they would all fit together and wondering if that roster would work.
Damp for Rip?
I’ve read that the Mavs are not interested in Rip, but it’s still nice to dream. The salaries match up and Detroit NEEDS a center. They also have an overabundance of SGs. It’s a simple swap and both sides win.
That is if Dallas is comfortable with Gortat and Hollins at C, and as long as we are OK not playing in the 2010 FA market. Personally, I think holding our breath for the 2010 FA is a bad idea. I think we need to strike while we can or we’ll get stuck holding the bag.
Creates a logjam
And effectively means that Howard would be put up on the block if the trade for Marion goes through because Rip is definitely not coming off the bench, especially after last year’s fiasco with Iverson. Wouldn’t mind depending on what Dallas can get for Howard.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Detroit would make the Boozer deal first...
And would play him at center. It’d probably would have been done already, but Utah is still trying to find a way to dump salary. They need to do that this year, not next.
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 7, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not that thrilled about the idea of Howard playing SG.
He already shoots more jumpers then he should. Terry would be taking his spot in the lineup in the forth quarter, so I guess it wouldn’t be that big of a deal if Howard started off the game in the 2 hole.
S-St. Louis, R-Rams, D-Dallas, M-Mavericks, A-Arizona, D-Diamondbacks.
Looks like we're stuck
From DMN:
Meanwhile, the Mavericks’ talks with Toronto for Marion appear to be stuck on at least two points. An Eastern Conference executive said the deal could hinge on Toronto including Marcus Banks in the equation.
Banks, a 6-2 point guard, is due more than $9 million over the next two seasons, which would impact the Mavericks’ ability to attract free agents next summer.
Another problem is Toronto apparently does not want to take back any salary in exchange for Marion, who is an unrestricted free agent and would come to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade situation.
If the Raptors won’t take on Stackhouse’s $2 million – the guaranteed portion of his $7 million salary – then a third team would have to be found to make the deal work. It is believed Mavericks owner Mark Cuban and Dan Fegan, Marion’s agent, are working on finding a partner to facilitate the trade.
Yay, Roger!
Yahoo is reporting we're close to a deal
My question is, if we keep Marion and move Howard to the 2 spot, who’s in at the end of the game? Terry has to play in the 4th (him and Dirk were practically are entire 4th quarter offense last year) so who comes out? Howard or Marion? I’m guessing probably Howard since he’s usually better early.
If the Mavs signed Ross, that means Green aint comin back?
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
It's an interesting question...
But a good problem to have. Most likely it’ll shift depending on the situation and matchup. When you need defense, it’ll be Dirk, Marion, and Gortat in the frontcourt, with Josh and Kidd at the guards, and when they need offense, it’ll be Dirk, Marion, Howard, Terry, and Kidd, with Dirk playing center.
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 8, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
if things work out well enough
I could see Beaubois in at the end of games for defensive purposes or offensive; and I could still see Barea in at the end of games for offensive purposes
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Boozer
If Utah is looking to dump and Boozer is on the block, why isn’t Dallas chasing him with the stack chip? Marion is the same as Josh – maybe a little better and more consistent, but a lot older. Boozer seems like a better fit, makes the Mav’s tougher and truly makes a trade of Damp easier to take.
Because Boozer would be a bad fit for various reasons...
Mostly because they would have to play him at center, which means they just wasted the MLE on Gortat and he’s a terrible defender. He also gets injured too often and would probably be gone a year from now. Marion makes more sense on several levels. He can still give them the rebounding that Boozer would, can be slid into the lineup fairly easily, and is still a plus defender.
I think if you put two of my best seasons together it wouldn't come up with the numbers he's going to have at the end of the season. -Troy Aikman on Tony Romo
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 8, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
We're getting close
According to ESPN, the Grizzlies are now part of the deal. It won’t be finalized until tomorrow, at the earliest, and may even require a fourth team before all is said and done.
Yay, Roger!
so excited!
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
yes
and it appears Donnie and Cuban know what they’re doing afterall. they’ve had a plan for 2010 regarding Damp for a while now, I’d imagine…and that’s why we haven’t seen any huge additions in the past few years outside of the Kidd trade, and it’s how we’ve been able to resign Kidd and keep Dirk from going crazy.
"Hang-Dai, Wu...Hang-Fu$&ing-Dai"
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 8, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
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