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Who Should Start: SG and SF

The Maverick starting five is not going to be extremely hard to decide, assuming no injuries occur before the start of the season. At point guard and at power forward, you have two hall of famers. There's a couple of locks. At center, you just spent 55 million on Haywood, and though Chandler has looked good in his USA basketball action, there's really not a position battle. With the money Haywood got, and his sensitive ego that we saw flashes of this past year, I just can't see Chandler starting.

That brings us to shooting guard and small forward. I think that last year's starting combo of Butler and Marion is probably the front runner, but the Mavericks have depth. There are four combos which I honestly believe could work, depending on exactly what the Mavericks are looking for.

SG: Butler, SF: Marion

As I said, this is likely the front runner. Chemistry wise, this is probably the best lineup. Both Butler and Marion have hinted that they would be upset with a demotion to the bench, while Terry is obviously okay with it and Beaubois isn't going to complain. Starting Marion allows him to match up immediately with the elite scoring wings. What's the point of having a lock down defender if he's only playing with the second string after Kobe and Durant and Anthony have come out to get some rest? With Butler's toughness and solid defense, this becomes a very balanced starting five, without any major weaknesses.

Of course, there aren't any major strengths here, either. Plus, this is the same lineup that we used last year that didn't work. Maybe things can be different, but why? Is Butler suddenly going to develop a high percentage three ball, or will Marion's rebounding skill suddenly come back, or is Kidd going to remember how to drive and finish? With Dirk on the floor, offense is not a weakness, but its very average with this collection of players. Certainly, the Mavericks can do better than that, right?

Star-divide

SG: Rodrigue Beaubois, SF: Caron Butler

Here's a lineup that has offensive strength. We all know Dirk creates open shots for his teammates because he has to be doubled, but Roddy is a penetrator, which will create more good looks. With the five on the floor, every one is solid at finishing when given that good look (though obviously Haywood's good look is within 5 feet of the basket, and Kidd's is 22 feet or farther). The defense is solid, too, with Roddy guarding PG's and Kidd taking the SG's. And Butler gets to return to his natural position, which helps trigger his bounce back season.

I like this lineup, but it has some weaknesses. First of all, Roddy is injured, and there's no telling if he'll be ready to be a starter opening day. Maybe in a few months this lineup will be much more viable, when Roddy has fully recovered and shaken off any rust, but it'll be a stretch for opening day. Also, starting Roddy at the 2 poses a problem on the boards. Haywood is good, but Dirk's rebounding fell off a lot last year, Butler is average for a small forward position, and Roddy doesn't have the strength to be a factor, despite his ups. Kidd will help, but this will still be a worse rebounding lineup than one that has Marion in it (and that Butler/Marion starting five wasn't exactly all-worldly either). Finally, there's no defensive stopper for superstar wing players. Butler can play some minutes

SG: Jason Terry, SF: Caron Butler

I'm not sure I've seen anyone talk about this lineup, but it has a few things I like. First of all, its a rip off of the Roddy/Butler lineup, but since Roddy has had the injury setback, it inserts JET for Roddy. Terry can't penetrate and create, but he can score (he scored 16 ppg last year, guys! He deserves a lot of his criticism, but its not like he totally fell apart...). He provides some more shooting, spreads the floor some more. Playing with Butler and Dirk more should eliminate some of those bad, contested 20 footers, also, at least in theory. We've said we want JET to have a smaller role this year, and maybe being the sixth man made him feel like he needed to carry the team when Dirk is off the court. The main reason this lineup might be plausible is because when Roddy is deemed healthy, the two can switch spots, as long as you make that clear to JET when he starts on opening night.

This lineup has the same weaknesses, though, as the Roddy/Butler one, plus some extra ones. Rebounding is still bad, and now defense is a problem too. The offense is also extremely reliant on the 20 foot jumper going down, with Roddy's driving or Marion's low post and fast break offense (its not consistent or deadly, but its a change up from the outside oriented games of our other guards).

SG: Roddy Beaubois, SF: Shawn Marion

This lineup does two main things. It can run, with two ball handlers and four great finishers (I think Roddy, Marion, Dirk and Haywood all finish very well, at least on the fast break) and of course one of the best passers in the history of the NBA. It also has a ton of versatility, with Caron Butler on the bench. If the team gets off to a slow start, Butler can sub in, either to get big (with the Butler/Marion combo) or to score (with the Roddy/Butler combo). The bench is also strong when its the full second unit playing, having Butler and JET. The defense isn't terrible, either, though a bit small.

Despite the strong bench, this starting five isn't really great at anything else. Its an OK rebounding, OK scoring lineup. If you are concerned about Butler and Dirk being the only two scoring options, be even more worried about Roddy, because he's going to be inconsistent, especially if his shot isn't going down. 

So have at it: Which combination do you like the best?

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first off i wanna say

excellent post. Second of all you left off Dojo out of the line up what if you start Roddy at PG? you could then have Dojo@ SG, with Marion @ SF with Butler and Kidd coming off the Bench. That way if Roddy’s or DoJo’s shot isnt falling you insert Kidd @PGs and Roddy slides to SG.

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Aug 21, 2010 7:16 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think there's any way to not start Kidd.

And unless we get Chris Paul, he’s going to be starting at PG. I kind of like having two attacking guards, in Dojo and Roddy, but it just won’t happen with Kidd on the team. Plus, I don’t think Dojo will be ready to contribute until a few months into the season…he really needs to iron out that jumper of his.

Maybe when we rest Kidd for a game we can go with a Dojo/Roddy tandem.

by tcat75 on Aug 21, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I just don't see Dojo starting.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Aug 22, 2010 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually

 Kidd has already stated that he wouldnt mind coming off the bench to help Roddy get the minutes he needs @PG. Now will that happen since hes been injured? Unlikely but it would be nice to get our younger players some game time experience

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Aug 22, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

*occasionally

he would come off the bench occasionally, if I recall correctly.

by LJRotter on Aug 23, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

It surprise me if that ever happened.

However, it wouldn’t surprise me if Kidd is healthy the entire season but only plays 70-72 of the 82 games. And minor injuries will probably be treated as if it was more severe.

by tcat75 on Aug 23, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

anyone else think that

Butler will try to sign with the Heat when he’s a FA? He can back up Wade for less cash, and wants a ring.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.

by tomkanti on Aug 22, 2010 4:15 PM CDT reply actions  

I think the NBA is a business.

If he did. It would be unreasonable. It’s Donnie Nelson’s job to get good players and hold on to them best he can. So far he’s not making a solid case for any top tier player to join the Mavs.

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 22, 2010 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I were him, I'd try to do that.

There’s nothing wrong with him going to the Heat if he wants. He has no allegiance to the Mavericks…we didn’t draft him, he hasn’t won a championship with us, nothing like that. If he goes to the Heat, its like robbo said above, its a business decision. Makes sense with me.

by tcat75 on Aug 22, 2010 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't blame the Heat. They're only doing their jobs by making themselves more attractive to players wishing to win a ring or two.

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 23, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, let's not pretend as if its just a matter of "signing with Dallas".

It’d be a S&T with a bunch of moving parts, on and on and on. Also, the Mavericks have a smaller window than a lot of teams, too, with the overall age of the squad being what it is.

The main reason this offseason that no one signed with Dallas is very, very simple: There was no one to sign. James/Bosh/Wade had already decided months ago they were going to play with each other. Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rudy Gay and John Salmons both resigned with their teams, so we assume that they were not serious lookers. Amare, Jefferson, and Boozer were not fits with Dirk.

The Mavericks knew of two players who were good fits and would be willing to sign: Dirk and Haywood. They got those two players locked up.

Yes, they missed out on some lesser free agents that I gladly would have accepted, namely Al Harrington, but there just weren’t any “high class free agents” to get this offseason, not from the Mavericks point of view.

by tcat75 on Aug 24, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not inclined to agree tcat75.

The question here is does the Mavericks front office have the juice to field a top contending team? The onus is not on FA’s. It’s on the GM in bringing together necessary pieces to compete with teams who can. I really don’t see Donnie’s strategy getting the job done. All these lateral moves don’t lend itself to confidence in going far in the upcoming post season.

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 24, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

From what I read,

it was widely accepted throughout the league that Dampier + Beaubois could get a very good player. That’s the necessary pieces right there. Butler’s expiring…there’s another piece that could have been used. First round picks, or Dominique…that’s stuff that could be offered. We had the means to acquire the top free agents on the market.

Do you mean the FO didn’t get the pieces on the team to attract a big name free agent? That wouldn’t make any sense. Dirk and Kidd are fantastic players to have, and if a top free agent had chosen Dallas, there’s no doubt we would be serious contenders.

by tcat75 on Aug 25, 2010 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

From the way it looks,....

What makes sense is there weren’t anybody buying what the Mavs was selling. You may like that package, but it appears you’re in the minority. That’s the point. No top FA have confidence in the Mavs to take a chance on them.

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 26, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because Wade and James and Bosh all decided a year ago to play together and everyone else resigned!

We went over this! There were no top FA that could choose the Mavericks. We said over and over again that Dirk wouldn’t sign with someone else because he was a Maverick and this was his best fit, that he was loyal. Well, John Salmons and Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and Joe Johnson…similar situation. No, they haven’t been with their team (excepting Pierce) as long as Dirk, but their loyal, and they like their situation, they didn’t want to leave, and they had experience some sort of success with the team they were on.

Boozer and Jefferson and Stoudemire…those are offensive power fowards who are defensive weaknesses at the 4, and even more so if they had to play the 5. Plus, signing Haywood just didn’t give enough minutes.

Rudy Gay was tendered, so he couldn’t go anywhere.

Who else is there? The plan itself was not totally wrong. The Mavericks didn’t know that the Hawks would offer 120 million, or that the Miami trio had already destined their location a year ago. They couldn’t have known that. If those things hadn’t happened, if Rudy Gay hadn’t been tendered, if other things had happen then maybe we could have got a top FA. But the way things worked, there just weren’t any to get.

by tcat75 on Aug 26, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Take it easy,......

We all know in vying top FA’s is a mixed bag of hits and misses. Now when negotiations don’t go as hoped. It’s all part of the game. It’s not the end of the world. We just have to do a better job at attracting players we need.

With all due respect the Mavs have a lot to be desired when it comes to convincing impact players. It’s highly probable that the Mavs have a realistic chance at out doing NBA elites.

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 26, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well yes

We had a good pitch for potential free agents, but none of them were interested because they already had plans in mind of who to sign (or resign) with. Maybe if we had had a great pitch, we could have done a better job attracting free agents.

Either way now, I’m not sure free agency is really a liable option anymore. If this team adds a big part, it will be through a trade.

by tcat75 on Aug 28, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not like Coach Carlisle instills a feeling of "WIN"

If for now other reason than that I’d never sign with Dallas if I were a player in the NBA. Actually for my money that’s the only reason, everything else we have is top notch.

by elbow greater than face on Aug 24, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah!

Roddy and Caron start IMO. Save Marion for when we need solid wing defense. Also sell Jason Terry to the circus.

by elbow greater than face on Aug 24, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would bet that players don't view Carlisle with the disgust that most fans seem to do.

I’ve never said that he’s great, but some of the hate I just don’t get.

by tcat75 on Aug 24, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is true but

what if I want to win?! That’s the deal-breaker, I don’t think Rick is a “winning” coach, he’s good but not the kind of great it takes to win a title.

If you’re an older player you’re more apt to want rings than minutes, right?

by elbow greater than face on Aug 25, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Carlisle is viewed as a turn off for most players

He’s just a coach. Not a bad one, not a great one. I just think players want to go to a team with a younger core than Dallas.

by tcat75 on Aug 26, 2010 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

They could actually start him

If you move Lebron up to point (where he would be absolutely deadly imo) and slide Butler in at the 3, that team would become even harder to stop defensively.

Mavs MoneyBall!!
Dallas Stars Examiner!!
poster formerly known as hinduplaya

by mayur.patel on Aug 26, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah

haywood chamler
dirk tim thomas
caron marion
jr smith terry roddy jj
kidd dojo roddy jj

by heatnewfan on Aug 23, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I ummm,.......

Photobucket

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 24, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Please

No more head cases on any of our sports teams in this town.

Mavs MoneyBall!!
Dallas Stars Examiner!!
poster formerly known as hinduplaya

by mayur.patel on Aug 26, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let me say this loud and clear "____ you"!

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 29, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

umm ya

The reply button is your friend

Mavs MoneyBall!!
Dallas Stars Examiner!!
poster formerly known as hinduplaya

by mayur.patel on Aug 28, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I'm talking bout,.....

The guy insults we know who, and tries to clean it up by saying he was joking and directing that crap at me. Now that’s juvenile!

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 29, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Leave me out of it. You were the who one tore your draws trying to be funny.

I could give a lovely how you feel,…… Just move on before you put the other foot in your mouth.

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 29, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

okay Kids

now everyone hug and make friends :)

"Of all the things I have lost , I miss my mind the most-Random T-shirt

"There is a fine line between Genius and Insanity"-Unknown Author

by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Aug 30, 2010 12:54 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm cool,..........

In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are not their stories,.......

by robbo24 on Aug 30, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rotating 1 through 3

The Mavs have too many options.
But it should give them the flexibility to let a lot of the older guys sit out games with even the most minor injuries. And not play anyone over 30 minutes a game, so they’ll all be fresh when the playoffs come around.
I think they should start PG: Kidd, SG: Butler, SF: Marion, PF: Dirk, C: Haywood

Beaubois should be the first option off the bench. He can come in at the 1 or 2, and just slide everyone up one spot as needed. I could see him even coming in at the point and sliding Kidd to the 2 quite often.

And Beaubois should get the start any time the Mavs rest Kidd, Butler, Marion or Dirk.
He can start at either the 1 or 2. And Kidd, Butler or Marion can adjust accordingly.

Terry, Barea, and Jones can fight for whatever minutes are left at the guard spots. And DoJo might even see a couple of minutes at SF on occasion.

by young guns on Aug 31, 2010 9:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Tcat75

I think that a lot of players have off nights, but they don’t get pulled after 5 minutes.
 I’ve seen every player on the Mavs be “inconsistent”, but Roddy really has never had a chance to play through a slow start.

by young guns on Aug 31, 2010 9:48 PM CDT reply actions  

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