The Unwanted Case for Carlisle
by tcat75 on Aug 4, 2010 8:41 PM CDT
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Name the most exciting thing about the Mavericks. Its safe to say most of you guys would answer that it is Mr. Beaubois (though I'm willing to bet your answer wouldn't be that formal). Its obviously an easy pick: he's not the best player, but he's the most explosive, he's got the most potential, he makes dazzling layups and displays outstanding athleticism and drains crazy threes...what's not to like him? Plus, he's new. Dirk is awesome, but we've seen him for years now. Roddy is an untapped young talent, he's a known quantity, but still a mystery in many regards, just due to his limited playing time.
That right there is exactly what I'm going to talk about. His playing time. The general consensus all over Mavericks fandom is that Rick Carlisle screwed up, and that Beaubois could have helped this team way more if he had been given more minutes. Before the hate comments start pouring in, let me make this perfectly clear: Roddy DID deserve more minutes this year, and Carlisle DID screw up by not playing him enough. Understand that I'm a huge Roddy fan...I can type out his name almost as fast as I can my own because of the amount I've googled and youtubed him, and trust me, its not easy to type out...and the twelve and a half minutes in 56 games he got last year? Not adequate.
But as a reader and poster on several Mavericks message boards, I see a lot of Carlisle getting absolutely blasted for that. Some insist he should be fired, others claim he's incompetent and knows nothing about basketball, and some just state their opinions simply as, "Carlisle is an idiot!"
Carlisle is not an idiot. He's not a moron. He's smart, and its clear he made a mistake by not using Roddy more, but there were reasons that he had to not trust the kid. You guys may not want me to make this case for Carlisle, but he's not the mental asylum escapee that many people claim.
So there's a simple reason Carlisle had to not play Rodrigue. Defense. Now I know this is a bit of a hypocritical excuse, because there are a certain couple of players on the team right now (I'll give you a hint: one would excel at midget wrestling and the other looks a lot like this), but I'll get to that in a second. Let's stay focused on Roddy.
Now Beaubois is certainly a candidate to be a defensive team selection, at some point. He's fast and quick, not only straight line but also laterally. He's got an impressive wingspan and an even more impressive vertical, giving him the ability to swat away layups and also get a hand on jump shots at a higher than average rate. He's not Rajon Rondo, but he sometimes shows flashes of having a knack for the ball, being able to step in front of passes and poke the ball lose from behind.
His weaknesses won't take a paragraph to describe like the above one, but unfortunately they are quite glaring. He's foul prone. when he uses his athleticism to perhaps play defense a little too much, and can't defend the pick and roll, primarily because he doesn't have the strength needed.
During the first half of the season, the problem fighting past picks was extremely glaring, and would often be highlighted and exploited by the other teams. Roddy, despite wowing people offensively, did quite the opposite on the other end. He seemed over matched, probably because he was.
Now you ask about JJB and this guy? For Carlisle, both Barea and Terry were players who played bad defense, but Carlisle also understood their offensive game. He knew what they could and would do on the offensive side of the ball, despite their lacking defense. For Beaubois, he was a huge question mark and mystery, and his English being lacking as it was, wasn't the easiest guy to coach up. The question mark grew smaller over the extent of the season, but Carlisle preferred to play his bad defense guys whose offense he knew, not a bad defense guy who was still somewhat of an enigma, whose language barriers could cause problems on and off the court, and who have never played in big games on this stage before.
Now, there's a span of a month or two where Roddy's defense had improved a lot (still lacking, but good enough in other areas to make up for those before mentioned weaknesses) but he still received no playing time, besides a little mop up duty. I'm not excusing Carlisle, as I've said before: there were many a game against bad teams where the offense needed a spark, but our potentially greatest spark off the bench was not used. Roddy hadn't really had a game where he proved himself to be an everyday player, but he also didn't get a lot of chances to.
The one game where he did prove himself? That would be Golden State. 40 points, 15/21 shooting, 9/11 from three point land...it was an amazing performance. A performance that deserved a big increase in minutes for that kid. He's going to show up big; he's going to light it up, right?
Here's his games after Golden State. (Oh, quick sidebar: can anyone tell me how to add a table? Is the only way to edit the HTML code?)
vs Denver: 15 minutes, 2/7 FG, 1/4 3PT, 2 PF's, 5 points
at Memphis: 23 minutes, 4/8 FG, 1/2 3PT, 3 TO's, 4 PF's, 10 points
vs Orlando: 11 minutes, 0/3 FG, 0/1 3PT, 2 TO's, 2 points
vs OKC: 10 minutes, 3/6 FG, 0/2 3PT, 2 TO's, 3 PF's, 7 points
Also, in all four of those games, a combined 4 assists and 3 rebounds.
That's not good stats, folks. All I'm saying is that Roddy proved he needed more minutes, then promptly proved he didn't. Carlisle certainly gave him a chance, if you check out those minute totals. Its all about trust, and when Carlisle gave Beaubois a chance to prove himself, he didn't.
One more time, Roddy should have got more minutes. He should have got more playing time in the playoffs. He should have been subbed in early in the 4th quarter of Game 6. But Carlisle isn't some senile old grandpa. He didn't give Roddy enough chances overall, but when he did, let's not pretend that Roddy did everything right. No, it was his rookie year, and he had some mistakes. Probably quite a bit more than "some". And Carlisle is a smart coach. I would expect 20 mpg for Roddy, if he plays up to expectations, at the least this year. If Roddy gets that, then I'll be happy.
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This was supposed to be a short article...
but what can I say, I’m a chronic, uncurable overtyper. Its the genes.
Convincing.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot." - Bill Russell
A good article but I'm still ahuge skeptic.
I watched Carlisle and his lineup changes quite closely at the end of the season and during the playoffs. I never saw anything I would consider “smart coaching”. Roddy B. isn’t the only player that was under-used in my opinion. Haywood should have seen far more time as should Butler. Also I wasn’t satisfied with when and how much he used Barea. Look at the Spurs series, basically we had two lineups, our starters and our “small ball” lineup. There was no flexibility and no smart adjustment made there.
I truly believe Rick is our biggest handicap as the team is now. As far as I’m concerned there are only 3 situations that would keep us from reaching the Western conference finals this year:
- an unfortunate run-in with the Lakers
- getting hosed by a young and hungry Thunder
- Carlisle fails to use the pieces at his disposal properly.
Yeah you might mention other teams but everyone else falls under category #3 as far as I’m concerned, We have what we need to beat everyone else in the west if coached correctly. As sad as it is to say I find #3 the most likely to occur…after what I’ve seen I have almost no faith in his ability, sorry.
by elbow greater than face on Aug 9, 2010 2:05 AM CDT up reply actions
good article?
I think you were right about everything but the first three words you wrote. The idea that Roddy B should have sat should not be up for discussion.
I think when viewing Carlisle purely from his substitution patterns, he is not the greatest coach.
I’m not going to disagree with you there. Over the course of an entire year, Carlisle makes some pretty dumb decisions, I would say.
At the same time, Carlisle also hits gold when trying certain lineups, or when playing certain players. The small ball lineup has been effective, especially early on. Now its just becoming overused, but on the 08/09 team which didn’t have quality wing players like this team does now, it was quite effective.
However, I’m getting off my main point. Carlisle is in the bottom half of the league when it comes to substitution patterns. But he excels in other areas, namely strategy. He’s excellent at calling plays out of time outs, he appears to be good at developing young players, he’s figured out how to use Dirk in his offense, and his defensive schemes, especially that zone defense, has won us games. As far as I can tell, he’s average, at worst, when it comes to the chemistry with the team. He’s not the most well loved coach, but the players like him.
Breaking Carlisle down to only his substitutions just isn’t the full picture. Nobody has to say he’s Pops or Phil — I mean, come on, he’s clearly lacking in the gray hair department — but he’s solid. He’s a Shawn Marion of coaches: good enough to start, gets the team easy baskets, does a lot of behinds the scene stuff like play good defense, and from time to time he shows flashes like he’s a superstar. Or something like that.
That’s how I view Carlisle.
unconvinced
You seem to be trying to convince us that the season started with Roddy’s 40 point game. If you look at November stats, Roddy should have been playing all year. But he sat all of December, and most of January and February. Did he break his foot at the end of November, I didn’t recall? Then at the first of March over a 7 game stretch he averaged over 16 points on 56% shooting, 2.4 to 1 assist to turnover, 2.4 rpg, all in 24 mpg. Then he sat the bench the whole next game?
It was a blatant misuse of a very real talent. I can think of no reason for the inconsistent minutes he received throughout the year.
He had the best overall shooting % on the team. And those fouls you mentioned added up to 1.5 per his 12.5 minutes a game. No excuse. Period.
He was explosive offensively and made some amazing, athletic defensive plays.
He should have played more and I can’t believe that anyone would try to make sense of why he didn’t.
And I’ve never been so angry watching any sporting event ever as I was watching him sit on the bench while the Mavs pissed away the playoffs without him.
He should have played more. You are correct.
I’m just trying to point out that there’s reasons he didn’t.
Please understand that I am one of the biggest Roddy B fans out there. I love the kid. I wanted him to play 30 a game. But if you look at it from a coach’s perspective, in some games there are definitely reasons that he should sit: bad defense, poor decisions, turnover prone, or just lacking the explosive offense he often brought. In other games, no, there’s not really much of an excuse, except that Carlisle doesn’t like playing rookies. To me, that’s a pretty weak one.
“I can’t believe that anyone would try to make sense of why he didn’t [play more].”
Really? You “can’t believe” I would try to understand Carlisle not playing Roddy more? Carlisle has made millions from coaching several NBA teams. He understands basketball much better than either of us ever will. There has to be reasons…Carlisle doesn’t just check his daily horoscope or flip a coin to determine if Roddy is playing. At the same time, Roddy is, as we’ve both said, explosive and talented and played very well. Why doesn’t it make sense for me to try to understand these two things, because Carlisle being smart and Roddy being good, plus the results, doesn’t seem to compute right. And its not that Carlisle is a mental asylum escapee.
yeah. i hear ya. there must be some good reason, no?
Maybe you can answer this then?
What possible reason could there be that you sit the one guy on the bench that had single handedly brought you back into a game that you were 20 down the whole 4th quarter of your last chance to stay alive for the season. Well I heard the excuse, “you can’t expect a rookie to carry you very deep in the playoffs”.
I’d have been happy with a game 7 in Dallas and a chance at the second round.
It’s not the first time
check this link blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2010/04/rick_carlisle_shouldve_learned.html
Roddy didn't come into the game every time and bring the team back from down 20. You know that.
Sometimes he came in and he tried to bring the team back from down 20 and failed miserably.
I totally agree that RC would do it differently, though. In fact, the lack of moves by the FO shows me that they think Roddy’s development and increased minutes being the only change to the team would make them better. This isn’t quite what happen, but in a way, it is. They FO didn’t force any moves because they knew Roddy, the sophomore version, would make a huge impact because of the more minutes he’d get.
I think you hit it on the head in your post below this one: Carlisle is a good coach (not great, not elite, but he’s solid) and he messed up playing Roddy as little as he did. Some of the minutes he didn’t get can be excused, but another good chunk of them can’t, and that’s where he definitely messed up.
My bad, I guess I didn't read it thoroughly enough.
I know exactly what you are talking about, and I think the time that Roddy needed to come back in was at the 5 minute mark. Roddy had started the 2nd half and played the beginning of the 4th, and he needed a break. RC put JET in, because JET over the years has proven to be a clutch player, and he’s a solid veteran rotation member. The problem was, JET gave us nothing in those 5 or so minutes. So at 5 minutes left in the 4th, I think Butler subbed back in and that’s when Roddy should have gone back in, either instead of Butler or replacing Marion or JJB or whoever was on the court. I don’t think we were leading, but it was a close game and it could easily go either way. Instead, 3 minutes went by, SAS lead grew to 8-10, and the game was basically over when Roddy went back in with a couple minutes left.
Short answer? I can’t explain why Carlisle didn’t put him back in. Its not a guaranteed Game 7, let’s not get ahead of ourself, but Roddy was definitely playing better than JET.
truce
look. i aint tryin to put Rick down. But lookin back, I bet if he could do it over again, things would be different. I agree he’s a good coach, and we can’t change the past.
I don't think Rick is an idiot or doesn't know basketball
but I do think that he isn’t a very good judge of playing time for certain guys. Dampier got too much, Roddy got not enough, and Marion got too much.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Disagree about Marion, and Dampier only got too much after the Butler/Haywood trade when we had another good center available off the bench
(although part of the reason Damp got that is because they were trying to get him back playing well after that injury)
But you’ve got the right idea. Certain players (I’d use JET at the end of games rather than Marion and Damp, but its irrevelent) got too much and certain players didn’t. It doesn’t make Carlisle an awful coach, just not very good at managing minutes.
Yeah you hit on JET who was another one I missed.
As for Marion, I was just never a fan of him as a starter after the Butler trade. It was my personal opinion that he started games slowly and I would have been happier with Butler at the 3 and then one of our 2 guards as the starter. Of course, that was clearly a pipedream.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Aug 12, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
The reason I like Marion as a starter (and I'm planning on writing a piece that goes into this topic and the rest of the starting lineup)
is because Marion is an elite defender. You want your elite defenders defending elite scorers. Elite scorers start games. If Marion subs in and plays from 3 minutes in the 1st quarter to 6 minutes in the 2nd half, he may not ever spend any time on the floor when Kobe or Durant is also on it. If he starts, on the other hand, there is no doubt that he’ll sub out before they do, and the entire time he’ll be the shut down guy.
Not only does it get him time on the scorer, but we all know that if you can make a scorer work for his first points, that they can have a bad night. Its not a given, of course, but getting easy buckets minutes into a game is not a good sign.
A quote from a JJT Taylor article today
Granted its not about the Mavs, but this tidbit was interesting…
Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle is terrific at making the guys on his team earn playing time.
Link
Anyone else instantly think of Roddy B and Game 6 when reading this?
Mavs MoneyBall!!
Dallas Stars Examiner!!
poster formerly known as hinduplaya
It's JJT...that alone makes any thought of credibility ...his favorite word.
Besides, you need to substitute ‘guys’ for ‘rookies’.
"Mais put… Il est fou ce gars!"
It wasn’t just Roddy, RC never defined his rotation, didn’t know when to use who, didn’t have certain roles for guys, so he got outcoached by Pops. Pops knew how to use his players, and it won the series for them.
Pops has been coaching his players for how many years?
RC might have gotten out coached but lets not forget that The Spurs have been playing together for what 10 years or so? the mavs as they were assembled had been playing together for 3 months.
by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Aug 13, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I have to admit that I disagree with a few of the points in this post
However, they have mainly been covered by other comments. My biggest question is this: If you take a team that features a starting lineup of JKidd, Caron Butler, Shawn Marion, Haywood, and Dirk, and you lead that team to a 6-game series loss in the first round of the playoffs, can you claim to be a good coach?
Despite our opinions about Carlisle’s decisions , I feel that his performance has been too poor to justify his employment. I fear that we will lose another year of the Dirk Window before we realize that RC isn’t that good.
by JoeyJoeJoeJr.Shabadoo on Aug 13, 2010 12:57 AM CDT reply actions
I don't think it would be too crazy to say RC is like Wade Phillips
Nobody thinks he’s an absolute genius bound for Canton, but he’s a great at strategy and the x’s and o’s, and always gets his team to play well in the regular season. Now, he’s having to prove he can also do it in the postseason, even though to this point he’s been a poor coach in those regards.
Carlisle might be remembered more as an analyst on TNT than a coach in 10 years, even if the Mavs win it all, because he’s not flashy, doesn’t stand out, and quite simply, is not the best coach, but that doesn’t mean he can’t go in and win something.
I really, really don’t think he’s so bad that he’s “costing” us a year out of the Dirk Window, especially seeing how there isn’t really anybody on the market who’d I’d call a huge improvement…especially while trying to install a new offense and all that.
The Mavs need to win this year, though, for sure.
actually Wade is is considered an absolute genius
it just not in the head coaching dept
by I draft the Cowboys!!!! on Aug 14, 2010 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I said this was going to be an unwanted case =)
I’m not at all surprised that half the people disagree with me. And I’m fine with that.
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