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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

On why Dwight isn't happening


Okay, so Dwight Howard can talk to the Nets, Lakers, and Mavs. We can all say things like, Brook Lopez isn’t enough and the Nets already traded everyone good to get Deron! The Lakers are (still) likely to offload Gasol/Odom after all, then who will they have left?! The Mavs don’t have anybody to trade, but isn’t that enough?!?!

The answer is no, probably not.

Star-divide

Guys, I’d love it. So would you, and both those things go without saying. Dwight, and then maybe Deron….I hate the superteams era dawning, and I’m not going to back away from that stance, but hating the gun era didn’t mean it was a good idea to hang on to your cutlasses.

I’m not a cap guy, a finance guy, or an assets guy. I’ve gone on record as saying I don’t think free agency is much of a way to build a team, so I’m probably undervaluing the Mavs new trade exception.

Bottom line, though? The NBA turned down Gasol and Odom for Paul. That doesn’t mean the NBA will involve itself, or that the Hornets thing wasn’t a unique situation for the obvious reasons.

But Roddy Beaubois and cash for Dwight?

Come on.

Andrew Bynum and Brook Lopez for Dwight are both better than that. Not only have both contributed roughly eight zillion times more, already, in their NBA service, than Roddy whose flashes of brilliance are now over a season old, but they fill the hole left by Dwight. Sure, the Magic can have Roddy and Haywood or Roddy and Ian or whatever they might want.

But they want more.

And let me just add this one more thing. It may seem like players have a lot of trade power now because Carmelo was successful in bullying his way to the Knicks, and Chris Paul seems to have arranged a trade that, while not to the right coast, is still to A coast. It didn’t work, but it still might.

Nevertheless, Dwight Howard is not a free agent. Who he wants to go to still only matters in terms of what the Magic are willing to let him do. Otis Smith, incidentally, has screwed the Mavs on more than one occasion (we remember the Brandon Bass, Marcin Gortat thing) and it’s not altogether outside of the realm of possibility that he has given Dwight the power to talk to the three teams Dwight most wants to go to in part BECAUSE, once the Lakers figure out that Chris Paul thing, Dwight’ll see that none of them have what it takes to do it.

Again, though, even if the Magic are willing to stoop this low and the NBA is willing to let them, Bynum and Lopez are both better offers than anything the Mavs could give them. Much better. Yes, the Mavs could take Hedo off their hands. I hear the Nets can’t, and it’s hard to predict where the Lakers will be by the end of the season. Still…

Obviously, this would be probably the best thing to ever happen to the Mavs, besides drafting a certain number 41 (okay, maybe better in an on-court sense, though no one’s ever going to mean what Dirk does). It would probably pave the way for Deron Williams. And among three bad offers, the Mavs are only outclassed by a little bit and verifiably can make it work cap wise in a way the Nets, for example, can’t. It is NOT impossible.

It is super, super unlikely. The Mavericks do not have the talent to offer Orlando, they can have anything they want besides Dirk, but what would they want that would come close to being enough? And who’s going to help the Mavs land Dwight? And if you're the Magic, what do you want cap space for, if not to land...well, Dwight Howard and Deron Williams? And how does adding the greatest center in the league to the defending champions NOT go up the League's nose the wrong way, after they publicly embarrassed themselves by colluding against Chris Paul?

It doesn't feel right. I hope I'm wrong.

Rob Mahoney says roughly the same thing right over here.

Update: For the record, Mike Fisher over at Dallasbasketball.com figures the Mavs can do it.

(P.S: Obviously any possible scenario would require a third team. Personally, I find that super unlikely too, and especially because, as I say above, what team would help us get Dwight Howard? And even if they would, the Rockets at least got Pau Gasol out of it--I don't see the Mavs or the Magic having anything to give a third team. But I've been wrong before.)

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A deal to bring Dwight to the Mavericks would definetely involve a third team

Who cares if the Mavs don’t have the assets? They can make it work. This is Dwight Howard we’re talking about. You do anything to try and get him, short of trading Dirk, obviously.

by mg4tx on Dec 10, 2011 10:51 AM CST reply actions  

Agree on this.

I’m not really hoping though because I don’t want to be disappointed. I’ll believe it when it happens.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, what do you suggest?

I’m going to play around with trade machine later. Just for fun, though; it ain’t happenin’.

by brettgardner on Dec 10, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

That's the weak link in that deal

The Hawks shed some salary, but you’d still have to add more pieces to convince them to do it. This is where I mention that the Mavs threw away a steal of a draft pick for absolutely nothing.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d8cqbgq

I added Haywood and Marvin Williams, because Williams is terrible and has ann awful contract and the Hawks don’t have a starting center. Terry and Hay for Josh Smith is not a bad deal if you ask me.

by mg4tx on Dec 10, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe a S&Td Barea as well

I don’t know, I’m just pipe-dreaming over here.

by mg4tx on Dec 10, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

A deal that could affect the hunt for Howard
@ESPNSteinLine: Mavs’ first swipe, I’m told, will be trying to do S-and-T w/Sac for Dalembert by using big trade exc from Chandler deal.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 11:08 AM CST reply actions  

This doesn't make any sense

Why not wait? Why blow the chance to get Dwight (slim as it is) to sign Dalembert?

by mg4tx on Dec 10, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Again, from Stein,
Concept would be to get Dalembert to agree to one-year deal lucrative enough to convince Sammy to choose Dallas and use TPE to take him in

I’m not really sure what Donnie is up to with Dalembert.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Calethas was a travesty.

one thing about Pooh is he played a full season last year with the kings. saw him play good for his height and abilities. he can just about be another JJ out there on the court.

by go87 on Dec 10, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I think what we've seen in the last week or so

Is that the Mavs front office has become risk averse…not that I have a big problem with it, but it’s clear that they have a plan here. The plan doesn’t involve going big this year, obviously. With that risk averse mindset, Mavs aren’t going to blow a chance to fill their roster with decent pieces for a slim chance at Dwight (and for the record, I think that chance is VERY slim). If they can get Dalembert for 1 year, then they have a decent center rotation and still maintain the flexibility in ’12 that is clearly their dream

by mtobo on Dec 10, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

andytobo

Why does it look like you’re ignoring the several proposals me and I Am Ironman! have made in several comments in several articles?

In all of the scenarios we get Howard, an SG (Ellis if we get Williams/Paul, Martin if we get Curry), or PG (CP3/Deron or Curry).

LOL

I'm reading this because it's interesting.

by entropy13 on Dec 10, 2011 11:10 AM CST reply actions  

correction

it’s not “or”, since I had parenthetical statements already to clarify who exactly for each (ie.e we get both)

I'm reading this because it's interesting.

by entropy13 on Dec 10, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Run ’em by me again?

by andytobo on Dec 10, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

you know something like this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7t3g9hv

or this:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7xmlc2g

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Dec 10, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Let me just say, before things get too crazy out here—that I’d be delighted to be wrong, that this is obviously THE move for the Mavs to make if they can make it, that we have an aggressive, creative front office and that they’re going to do everything that is remotely possible—-and that it is not IMpossible, by any means.

by andytobo on Dec 10, 2011 11:16 AM CST reply actions  

ahah yay where's LJ?

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4681636/jason-kidd-i-would-like-to-get-to-20
bq. “I got to keep playing because Jet wants to now pass Peja on the 3-point list,” Kidd joked Friday. “And I don’t want him to pass me.”

Jason Terry is eighth all-time in 3-pointers made and sits 90 behind No. 4 Peja Stojakovic and 145 away from the No. 3 man in NBA history, Kidd. Terry is four years younger so it figures he has the upper hand by the time both call it a career.

Not so fast. Who’s saying Kidd plans on calling it a career any time soon? After completing the first practice Friday of his 18th NBA season — and final one under contract with the Dallas Mavericks — Kidd said he wants to play 20 seasons.

“I would like to get to 20,” said Kidd, who turns 39 in March. “I think that would be a great feat through everybody forgetting my name and always just calling me old. You can call me ‘20’ at that point. I think it’ll be something. As a kid, you just think about playing. When you look back at it if you can go past eight years than your like, ‘Man I had a great career.’ Now it’s going on 18, so why stop now?”

by dimitrious on Dec 10, 2011 12:51 PM CST reply actions  

I say go for it

He’s already said he’s okay in a backup role, if it comes to that. And he’s obviously not the athlete he once was, but he’s still a well above average defender, and I don’t see that going away between 38-42

by mtobo on Dec 10, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Well

definitely not for the $8.5 mil he’s making this year, plus don’t we need to save as much cap room as we can so we can go nuts in the ‘12-’13 offseason? We’re already set at $41 mil for just 6 players for the ‘12-’13 season.

"I'm a unitard!" - Ralph Wiggum

by stupidsexyflanders on Dec 10, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

cool

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post//id/4681683/jason-kidd-likes-idea-of-reuniting-with-old-pal?utmsource=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

DALLAS — Jason Kidd and Vince Carter played together for two full seasons and parts of two others with the New Jersey Nets. Neither probably figured they would reunite as Dallas Mavericks, but Kidd said he likes the idea of playing with his old running mate.

by dimitrious on Dec 10, 2011 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I actually like Vinsanity.

Managing Editor of MavsMoneyball.com

by LJRotter on Dec 10, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

As someone who follows the Magic, Hawks, and Mavs

I think this would probably be the best trade for all parties

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7ntsdqz

The only way I see the Hawks giving up Smith and not receiving young players in return is for them to unload Joe. This would still give Atl a good starting 5 to maintain making the playoffs while giving them future cap space.

The Magic would get a few good young players and again still be able to make the playoffs albeit as a #6-#8 seed. Draft picks could also be added to the package for it to make it sweeter for them.

The Mavs get the best Center in the NBA and a pretty good SG in JJ. Their depth will be hurt, but with a starting 5 that contain three all stars and a future hall of famer FA will start to flock to Dallas like they do to Miami and LA to chase a championship for a lower salary.

d-wade=d-ouche

by captainamerica* on Dec 10, 2011 1:19 PM CST reply actions  

Why

would ATL want a 34-year old Marion who’s signed for 2 more years at about $9 mil and a 32-year old Haywood who’s signed for 3 more for between $8 and $9 mil+? These guys are old and massive albatrosses on any team’s payroll.

"I'm a unitard!" - Ralph Wiggum

by stupidsexyflanders on Dec 10, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

that is at

$8 and $9 mil per season.

"I'm a unitard!" - Ralph Wiggum

by stupidsexyflanders on Dec 10, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

The Hawks are notorious cheap owners

But they like the revenue they get from making the playoffs. A lineup of Teague, Hinrich, Marion, Horford and Haywood, while adding Jet to their bench as the 6th man to replace Crawford would actually give them a chance to make it the second round again as a #4 or #5 seed. They already regret the Joe Johnson contract so they would get out of paying him, while creating a smaller payroll for the team both short term and long term as they look to sell the team. I’m told this makes a team more attractive to buy. Also they are getting tired of the headaches that Josh Smith causes.

d-wade=d-ouche

by captainamerica* on Dec 10, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry

But that’s maybe the worse trade I’ve ever seen.

by brettgardner on Dec 10, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

that is

$8 and $9 mil per season.

"I'm a unitard!" - Ralph Wiggum

by stupidsexyflanders on Dec 10, 2011 1:26 PM CST reply actions  

nm

"I'm a unitard!" - Ralph Wiggum

by stupidsexyflanders on Dec 10, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

i hope he goes to a crappy team that doesn't sniff the playoffs

Yannis Koutroupis: Amnestied by the Knicks, Chauncy Billups has his hopes set for clearing the waiver process and landing in Miami as reported yesterday

by dimitrious on Dec 10, 2011 1:30 PM CST reply actions  

frigging jackass

Adrian Wojnarowski: Billups wants freedom to choose team. Warns those who’d claim him: You’ll regret it. “I’m tired of being the glue guy.”

by dimitrious on Dec 10, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Makes sense

If he goes through waivers unclaimed, he can sign a deal and double dip on the salary

by mtobo on Dec 10, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

So how does this amnesty thing work anyhow?

Can we just cut Haywood whenever he wears out his welcome here?

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 10, 2011 3:08 PM CST reply actions  

December?

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 10, 2011 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

So the cool thing about the amnesty is that, yes, you do have to do it prior to the season, but you can do it prior to ANY season during this CBA, which will last for the next six years. It’s a lot more likely we’ll amnesty Hay next summer, rather than this.

by andytobo on Dec 10, 2011 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

To be clear, you can still only use it once and it has to be on a player you signed before the CBA took effect. But still.

by andytobo on Dec 10, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

not too shabby

Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith

by Lissyyyyy on Dec 10, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Also the player

had to be on your roster. So we can’t get Turk and D12 from the Magic and just amnesty Turk.

"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"- Qui-Gon Jinn

by tomkanti on Dec 10, 2011 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

some news

Orlando Magic superstar Dwight Howard has requested a trade to the New Jersey Nets, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Saturday. Orlando GM Otis Smith has made it clear that he will trade Howard wherever the Magic get the best possible package, but the fact that Howard is willing to sign a five-year, $109 million extension with New Jersey makes it likely that the Nets can be the most aggressive in offering the most attractive package Yahoo! Sports

by dimitrious on Dec 10, 2011 6:20 PM CST reply actions  

As long as it's not the Lakers...

I just read somewhere that Orlando doesn’t like the Nets’ assets. It will probably require another team or two.

by zigg on Dec 10, 2011 7:16 PM CST up reply actions  

sheridanhoops has some info

It has been well known that New Jersey is willing to deal center Brook Lopez and two first-round draft picks to Orlando, taking back the contract of Hedo Turkoglu in the deal to give Orlando salary cap flexibility.

But is that enough to get the league’s most dominant center? Also, can the Nets clear more than $5 million in salary cap space to make the deal work under NBA trade rules? My sources tell me New Jersey is confident it can clear the additional cap room, so the timetable on getting this mega-deal done could be quick rather than slow. (Trading Jordan Farmar and Damion James for a draft pick would get the Nets the room they need).

by dimitrious on Dec 10, 2011 7:30 PM CST up reply actions  

They could amnesty Travis Outlaw

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 7:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Turkoglu has a 15 percent trade kicker, which would bump his salary from $10.6 million to $12.2 million. Howard is making $18.1 million this season, so the Nets would be sending only $3.08 million out and getting back $31.3 million in salary. Using the amnesty clause on Travis Outlaw ($7 million) would get New Jersey’s cap number down to the $33 million range, hence the need to clear an extra $5 million to fit both Howard and Turkoglu in under the cap.

by dimitrious on Dec 10, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Dallas has to get Utah involved

Dallas should look to get the Jazz and any of their 4 young bigs involved in a trade to the Magic. The Jazz are looking for a scoring shooting guard and Jason Terry fits the bill. A trade like this makes sense to me:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=85al35s

With some draft picks involved and maybe a few other pieces it beats out the New Jersey deal.

by HLSS on Dec 10, 2011 7:36 PM CST reply actions  

I think they might if it meant getting Howard

They have to do what’s best for the future of the team, a lot of people said Finley, Nash, and Chandler would end their careers in Dallas too.

It’s a business and if trading Terry means you get one of the best players in the league then you do it.

by HLSS on Dec 10, 2011 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I dont know, maybe just a biased hunch..

But it seems like every hour I think this gets more and more realistic. From NJ souring themselves with Magic, to LA caught up in CP3. This could happen

by Trey Kimbell on Dec 10, 2011 11:01 PM CST reply actions  

Apparently

According to Marc Stein and David Aldridge

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Trade exception we got from Chandler S&T

This will only strengthen Lakers’ ground for trading for Howard. I don’t get this.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Unless Howard to Nets comes true...

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

I think after the collapse he was dissatisfied that he was being moved, and had to go somewhere or he’d be unmotivated. I just wonder if we’re sending someone or just the exception.

by lemonbrigade on Dec 10, 2011 11:22 PM CST up reply actions  

True.

"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."

- Bill Russell

by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 11:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll certainly take Odom for no players if true

I think we have about a 1/4 chance to get one of the three marquee free agents anyway. Adding skilled veteran role players continues the model we beat the superstars only model with. Once again it looks like we might have a plethora of talent and a deep bench. Lamar Odom is also perfect trade chip himself or for another player used to attract Orlando, NO or NJ for an offer.

Another big factor to think about is if the free agents don’t sign extensions (they still have logical reasons to shop around), we don’t have to gut our team to get them. Why do free agents want to go to a gutted team where equivalent talent/future got traded for them?

by lemonbrigade on Dec 10, 2011 11:20 PM CST up reply actions  

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