Mavs reportedly on VC collision course, Turiaf reportedly not going through
by andytobo on Dec 9, 2011 9:05 PM CST
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PrintIt looks like this Vince Carter thing is going to happen. None of us are going to love it, since Carter doesn't try and is over the hill, but I'm certain the Mavs wouldn't have done this deal if the price (and years) weren't very right.
We'd been waiting to see if the Mavs would end up with Ronny Turiaf from the Knicks, in a sign and trade, which would have resulted in Ronny Turiaf (not that big a deal from my perspective) and a sizable trade exception (pretty cool, anyway). According to Mark Berman of the New York Post, the Knicks have found an easier trade partner in the Wizards, and won't be needing our services to clear that cap space.
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Not a fan of this move.
Especially if we are looking at years on his deal.
by Dark Narwhalskee on Dec 9, 2011 9:18 PM CST reply actions
If we get Vince Carter for veteran minimum, one-year
I say go for it. Can’t lose – if he doesn’t work out, we bench him. We have roster slots to fill that could be filled by far worse players than Vinsanity. He scored over 13 points per game in 27 minutes. That’s not different from Butler’s numbers.
I say we make a play for Nash and Hill now. Send them our next three first round picks. Resign Peja. We’ll be the oldest team ever with the most former all-stars in the history of the game I bet. What do we have to lose? Hell, let’s pick up Chauncey Billups while we’re at it.
Don't you know?
He won a slam dunk contest and tea bagged someone at the Olympics; that’s enough justification right there
"I don't want no damn welfare pencil!"
by Marie on Dec 9, 2011 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL right
What was that, twenty years ago? Seems like it.
by elbow greater than face on Dec 10, 2011 1:46 AM CST up reply actions
Let's wait and see
Cuban’s not a total idiot. Even if its two years at the vet minimum, that’s pretty good. If he pays him stupid money I’ll be very mad as I’d have preferred keeping Butler.
I also have faith in Carlisle, Kidd, Nowitzki, etc.
to bring out the best in him. He’s not talentless. His PER last year was better than Butler’s.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 9, 2011 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
In fact
His PER equivalent last year was Jason Terry and JJ Barea. I’m not going to complain until I see him in action within our system.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 9, 2011 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
I'll reserve judgement for the time being, but why multiple years?
maybe it’ll be for vet minimum or something, honestly I would’ve loved to see Carter be a Mav, but that was the in his prime, Raptor/Nets era Carter. Not the current Carter.
Here's our players ranked by last year's PERs
Dirk – 23.4
(Chandler – 18.4)
Corey B – 17.6
Marion – 17
JET – 15.9
Brandan Wright – 15.8
Vince Carter – 15.1
(Barea – 14.8)
Kidd – 14.4
(Butler – 14.2)
Peja – 14.1
Mahinmi – 13.7
Haywood – 11.7
Roddy B – 11.4
DoJo – 10.6
(Stevenson – 9.8)
(Cardinal – 9.7)
To me it looks like we got more efficient players, likely for much cheaper than Barea or Butler would have been. When I think of it this way, I’m actually pretty happy, losing Chandler aside. We have to wait and see.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 9, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Assuming our current roster (none of last year's FAs resigning, +VC and +BW)
Our average PER has gone up 1 point. I know PER’s not a perfect measure, but the Mavs are stat driven and I’m sure they know better than we do as to value plays. If Carlisle can get the most out of these players and we make a couple more interesting moves, we could end up being more efficient than last year. Hopefully these delusional statistics will soften the blow and the perception that the Mavs are effing up.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 9, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
PER is kind of an unproven stat
I still believe it’s basically just something that Hollinger masterminded so we would believe him when he says how good or bad people are.
by elbow greater than face on Dec 10, 2011 1:51 AM CST up reply actions
That's probably true
And sample size is an important factor. Before this season started I think Ian Mahinmi had like the fourth highest PER ever, in the history of pro basketball. His first season with SAS was 35.3 and second season was 21.6. When he came over I was convinced he was the center of the future.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 10, 2011 3:12 AM CST up reply actions
Still
I like the idea of judging the player by efficiency to find value. PER may not be the best formula, but it is passable in comparing who may be underutilized/a good value.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 10, 2011 3:14 AM CST up reply actions
Oh yeah, great idea just debatable execution.
I can’t think of any examples at the moment but I know there’s a few players who’s PER don’t accurately reflect their performance. On the other hand some do. You kind of have to just judge for yourself if it’s accurate.
by elbow greater than face on Dec 10, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
Robot can coach him up!
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 9, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
Carlisle is still suspect
and I hope you all remember how bad he can be on setting up and changing lineups. He could still be our own worst enemy. Not only that but he tendency to favor “veteran players” could see VC taking up big minutes and that could be really bad.
by elbow greater than face on Dec 10, 2011 1:49 AM CST up reply actions
you're still saying this after last seaosn?!?!?!!?
the man coached them to the championship.
Managing Editor of MavsMoneyball.com
by LJRotter on Dec 10, 2011 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, Lisa, I am.
He was adequate but I think out roster and minutes could have been managed much better. I’ll agree with Jackie McMullan when she says he’s gifted at drawing up plays, the x’s and o’s so to speak, but that’s all IMO.
by elbow greater than face on Dec 10, 2011 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
Can't call it luck.
It’s just that our team was that good. J Kidd and Chandler also seemed to fill in on some of the leadership we didn’t get from Robot.
by elbow greater than face on Dec 13, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
I was being sarcastic
What I meant was that Carlisle is a great coach. I really do believe that. You can see by the way he talks that he is smart and poised.
I want Chauncey Billups
more than Vince Carter
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Dec 9, 2011 9:44 PM CST reply actions
This.
I didn’t want either, but between the two gimme Chaunzy.
by Dark Narwhalskee on Dec 9, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Chauncey would be another nice 1 yr veteran min contract add if still possible
PER 19.1 last season. I’m all for building a team with the most efficient players possible, and with the most experienced veterans possible.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 9, 2011 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
Advanced metrics indicate that Carter could have a slight advantage over Caron this year.
And he’ll be cheaper. What’s not to like?
See my posts above ^
Our currently signed roster is more efficient than last years. Of course we aren’t done yet, which could be good or bad.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 9, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
Was Carter amnestied by the Suns?
I thought he had an 18 mill player option……
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Dec 9, 2011 10:25 PM CST reply actions
Yes.
He has a few million guaranteed, but they used the amnesty.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 9, 2011 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
Well
if there was one place where his perimeter-hanging could potentially be of use, it would be Dallas.
If he can create with the ball in his hands, that’ll be an asset.
On the other hand, defensively…yeah.
i tell the truth; i lie a lot
by jonthefon on Dec 9, 2011 10:49 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
All we missing is richard jefferson and kenyan martin
And the Mavs will be the 2002 Nets 2.0
by ray allen a mav on Dec 10, 2011 12:27 AM CST reply actions
VC is an OK addition
no one will ask him to carry the offense.Marion was washed up too, when he came to Dallas,but look at him last year going head to head with Lebron in the finals.Chandler was done, now he is the most important FA in the market.Playing with Dirk can make miracles.Watch out for VC!
Even old Peja wasn't an awful pickup
He became a specialist and saved us in multiple games.
by lemonbrigade on Dec 10, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
it's like the Mavericks flip old players
take pieces of shit and make them worth something again.
Managing Editor of MavsMoneyball.com
RC always puts players in the best situation to make them the most effective
and he does it well, and doesn’t get enough credit for it. He was absolutely brilliant last season, so I wouldn’t doubt VC being a decent role player.
Better than nothing.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
Kidd-Carter tandem is a curse.
But here under the Mavs blue sun, anything can happen.
HOPE is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of men.
back to back in the finals appearance together isn't really a curse.
not when shaq kobe and phil jackson were together.
Carter wasn't there.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Dec 10, 2011 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
thats right, he was carrying the raptors on his own before playing with the nets.
by go87 on Dec 10, 2011 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I've seen your user name before
do you have a youtube name like that also? I’m GuyanezeComedy, I post on most VC videos and I have like one on my channel.
Feels good to be back
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