Jason Kidd: Is It Time To Retire?
by KarimTheDream on Jul 2, 2011 9:17 AM CDT
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PrintEditor's Note: Front paged for quality discussion.
First thing I'd like to say is please read, or at least skim this before voting.
Okay. This post is coming from a die-hard Dallas fan. Also, I am a huge Jason Kidd fan. So I'm saying this out of love.
I think Jason should retire. Sorry Lisa.
The fact of the matter is that his career will never get better. He is an aging point guard. As the years progress, he will get slower, and people will beat him more easily. Is he still a premiere NBA PG? HELL YES. He just led us to a title. I am not questioning his productivity.
We need more minutes to be able to fully develop our younger players. Corey, Roddy, and Rudy can all use some of the minutes left over to try to develop as players. Let's face it guys. Let's be honest with ourselves. The chances Dallas repeats are scarce. They're not nonexistent, just scarce. We can still win, but it is a longshot. I think Jason should retire while on top. This year is perfect. He shot the ball well. He came through in the clutch. He won a championship. This is it. This is the pinnacle of his career.
If he keeps playing, what of his career? He will finish with a few more seasons of 7 or 8 points a game, 7-10 assists and a handful of rebounds and steals. Peanuts to his career averages. He is a hall of famer. For sure. It will happen no matter what, and that is the truth. A few more years will do nothing for his legacy. Instead, I believe he needs to leave after having the most perfect season he could. It won't get any better than a championship ring.
Look at it from an unbiased perspective. Realize for one minute the chances of a repeat. They are low. We will be a contender, but hey, it has taken us 11 years of contention to win. I am not saying Dirk or JET should retire, because they have 3-5 years left. 3-5 good years. Kidd has 1 or 2. The chances to win are too low. Let him go out on top. Think about him, do you really want him to retire after a heartbreaking playoff loss? Or after complete ecstacy?
Let me recap really fast. He can compete, yes. He is still an amazing point guard. If he retired now, his career would be perfect. With his extra minutes, we can develop young players and build for the future. Think about it. Jason Kidd can retire after the greatest season he could ever ask for.
He will forever be remembered a champion.
There is more I can write, but I've ranted enough. I'll do the rest of my talking in the comment section.
Now, as always,
GO MAVS.
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No
Career averages are just meaningless stats in such a long run.Let’s not be prisoners of them.What it matters at the end of the day are career achievements.After many years of playoff disappointments, Kidd is still the starting PG of a team who just won the championship.It makes no sense for him to deny himself the opportunity of chasing more rings as long as he still have a chance.You have to be blessed, to be able to compete at the highest levels at his age.It’s all about playing basketball, not counting stats.
Sorry but I disagree
And I’m sure Kidd is thinking in line of: “I just won my first championship and I want to defend it.” Doesn’t it feel better to go out on your own terms, not because of a lockout, knowing you could have done more? THAT would be something I would regret later in my life if I were him.
He will forever be remembered a champion.
Magic Johnson went out with HIV. Larry Bird retired because of injuries. The Doctor retired because he’s old and can’t play at a high level anymore. Kareem played ’til 41. Jordan retired three times. Olajuwon got traded to the Raptors at the end of his career. Et cetera et cetera.
What do they all have in common? They will be FOREVER REMEMBERED AS CHAMPIONS.
Lastly,
Look at it from a non-bias perspective. Realise for one minute the chances of a repeat. They are low. We will be a contender, but hey, it has taken us 11 years of contention to win.
So are you saying there is a chance? YEAAAAAAH!
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jul 2, 2011 6:39 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You're actually right.
I was writing this at just the spur of the moment. Dr. J was actually playing at a borderline all-star level in the season of his retirement. My bad. The other ones, all true as far as I know.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jul 5, 2011 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions
My point was
it doesn’t matter how you retired. If you were a champion, you’re a champion for life and nothing can take that away from you.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jul 5, 2011 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Nah you're good, I meant THE Doctor, not Dr. J.
The Doctor is over 900 years old and looks as good as ever.
Oh, me <3
Kind of a strange post, but I'll play along...
To be honest, I didn’t see a compelling argument for Kidd to retire in this post. As mentioned above, if career averages in points and rebounds are the primary driving factor in suggesting he should retire, that’s really not a good reason….unless I’m missing something.
In the post, the author says it himself that Kidd has 1-2 more good years in him. That, in and of itself, would be a pretty decent argument against retirement IF that were truly an accurate opinion. Now, I am not sure if the Mavs should re-sign him at all, BUT if they decide to do it, I would pretty much limit the contract to 2 years at most. Although I do appreciate his play and what he brings to the team in the form of intangibles, I have never been a big Jason Kidd fan. However, I really do like the role he plays with the Mavs and what he did defensively throughout the playoffs REALLY surprised and impressed me. That “kid” really wanted this championship.
The impact of having a player like Kidd on the team is a true plus and may be one of the most important things for the post-Dirk Mavs that we could find. Sure, I would expect his minutes to drop, but not just because of his age, etc., but rather as a transition for whoever assumes his duties going forward. Everyone talks about his basketball IQ and Dirk always comments on how he takes charge of the team, settles them down and keeps them focused on the task at hand. Those young guys named as “the future” do not have IT yet, but could learn a lot from the best at being the so-called floor general. He could prove to be a great mentor for some of these young players, while still playing an important role for the team in its quest to compete for another championship.
Actually, I feel I am rambling, so I’ll sum it up like this. I would have no problem with The Mavs signing him for a couple more years, as long as he knows he will be phased out bit by bit, while basically showing these other guys how to do certain things and take over his job. I believe Barea will be gone, so we need Kidd to transition this team to a currently inexperienced point guard of the future.
I do not feel he will negatively impact playing time and rotation issues regarding the younger guys. Also, I think the view that Dirk and Terry have 3-5 good years left. Maybe 3 for Dirk and honestly, I don’t think Terry will be here very long, much less have 3-5 good years left in him.
Kidd is not going to hurt the guard rotation once two of them are no longer with the team and those minutes are going to the young guys, and they will get more time as Kidd’s are slowly reduced. Honestly, it makes absolutely no sense not to re-sign Kidd. He really only helps this team…now and in the future. I’ll take Kidd’s 1-2 good years to go along with Dirk’s probably 3 good years left and see what happens. The only way I don’t re-sign him is if they lose a season to lockout, at which time, he’ll probably retire anyway.
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
in regards to this...
as long as he knows he will be phased out bit by bit,
Kidd has even said he’d be willing to come off the bench and give up minutes to the younger guys.
Managing Editor of MavsMoneyball.com
This. Prior to the 2010-2011 season and before the Roddy foot injury
Kidd clearly stated that he is more than willing to come off the bench to develop Roddy specifically. Because of this, I still haven’t lost faith that Roddy will acquire at least a decent PG skill set because as of right now (as we all know) he plays like a SG. A mentor who could be with you everytime to teach you everything he knows is invaluable. Besides, you can’t undermine the intangibles that Kidd brings to this team.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jul 2, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
why are we talking about roddy he's not even a PG
by the.Doc on Jul 2, 2011 3:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I just said why in the post you replied on.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jul 3, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Eh...
The crux of your argument is that it makes a nice story in the present day if Kidd retires with a ring. But history will look at his career in totality, not focus on the state of his play in his later years. It becomes a bit prisoner of the moment-ish for him to retire now when he can provide good contributions to the team.
You mentioned he has 1 or 2 good years left in him. Why shouldn’t he play and teach the younger guys how to play point better? Kidd’s mentioned that he’s willing to teach the younger guys what he knows. You mentioned Corey’s minutes, but I don’t think Kidd cuts into Corey’s minutes. Kidd also knows he’s getting less minutes with each season. I think minutes between the guards is something Carlisle can manage, especially under the tutelage of Kidd.
by cornhat on Jul 2, 2011 9:32 AM CDT reply actions
The "nice story"
may apply to Peja. It does not apply to Kidd.
by geraldmcgrew on Jul 2, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You managed to skip over the fact that Kidd would be saying “no thanks” to the millions of dollars he is under contract for next year. Unless his body completely gives out on him, his family demands he stop and spend time with them, or the lockout costs us the whole season, we’ll see Kidd in a Dallas uniform again.
Also, in almost any situation, one person telling another when to retire from any vocation is presumptive at best.
by fennsk1 on Jul 2, 2011 10:10 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
No, he shouldn't retire and here is why....
1. He may be a little slower but he is a lot smarter than many (or most) playing the game, he can use that to his advantage, just like he did this year.
2. He can mentor in real game situations the younger players, and help them develop and learn the game.
3. Oh yeah, and give up a few millions dollars, I don’t think so.
would it be awesome for Kidd to Retire after a championship?
yeah and I am sure that the thought has crossed his mind at least once or twice since the Finals….
However I think that Kidd still wants to play, still has something to offer, and wants to try and repeat…
AS far as our chances of repeating are concerned I think that they are alot better than most people give us credit for…assuming that Chandler /Butler resign…
as far as the money is concerned Kidd has made 10’s of millions in his career, I am pretty sure that the money .while nice, will play much of a role in any decision.
and like it has been pointed out, Kidd has stated that he knows that he will end up backing up a young player….
so overall I think that he will return…,if the lockout doesn’t go on to long…..(^%& $#% $&$-%^$%^E$ lockout )….
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 2, 2011 12:28 PM CDT reply actions
If not this year, then soon
I’d like to see him have about a 24 minute/game role this year. We not only need to develop our young guards (who can hopefully take some of the scoring burden off of Dirk), but the thought of JKidd’s numbers dropping any lower is somewhat concerning. His intangibles are great, but if we see less than the 9 pts/8 assists we got last year, I don’t know if we’ll be able to field a respectable offense.
by JoeyJoeJoeJr.Shabadoo on Jul 2, 2011 3:27 PM CDT reply actions
the thing with Kidd is
he has never been a “scoring PG”….he is simply the DIrector of the Controlled Chaos that is the Dallas Offense…any points he gets are simply bonus….. the key thing is can Dallas run its offense with out Kidd “directing”? So much of the Offense is just Dirk, Terry and Kidd setting each other up….
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 2, 2011 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Dear Lisa/etc,
I say this intending only sincerity and respect, but I think the front-paging of fanposts lately has been perhaps a tad overzealous. Some of them are, for lack of a better word, puerile, and paint an unflattering picture of Maverick fandom.
Now, I understand the desire to elicit comments and fill pages. Still, certain topics, even if they engender more coherent responses, deserve to stay on the refuse pile, along with the dozen or so “Chris Bosh looks like a bird” threads or “let’s trade Barea for Dwight Howard” suggestions, where they will be mercifully pushed down into oblivion.
Actual quality discussion should have, as a requirement, a worthwhile preamble.
it is a yes and no thing..
although i could see him be assistant coach now that dwayne casey is gone. him and darrell armstrong already work great together obviously with a championship. if the lockout goes for a year its time for kidd to retire.
Would any of us mind if Kidd retired?
No.
What Kidd has done for The Game of Basketball in general is amazing, he is one of the only true Point Guards left, and a great champion. If he chooses to go out on the highest note of his career. We all love him for it.
BUT
This Championship was like the taste of blood, I want more. Unfortunately, we have NO other PG back-up unless you count the foreigner that The Blazers gave us. Also, I don’t see us winning another championship if Kidd isn’t with us. So the greedy uncaring individual of me says I WANT HIM TO STAY. And I think he will.
just to point out OJ
Dallas also has Calethas(sp?) over in Greek….that may be willing to come over…..just saying….
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 2, 2011 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Would highly mind.
I don’t trust anyone on this team yet to run the offense as the starting PG/main guy. We need another season of Kidd to at least try and give time for someone to develop into it (Calathes wouldn’t be ready to be the PG on a championship contending team) or sign a big-name FA (IE Deron Williams) for a short-term contract until Dirk is no longer highly effective.
Then start rebuilding.
by Why on Jul 9, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
No
1. We can still develop young players and build for the future. His minutes will continue to gradually decrease, and he will help to develop those young players.
2. Depending on what comes out of the lockout, we may have an even more formidable roster than we had this year, if our injured and younger players progress. Unless a new CBA forces the Mavs to play with a weaker roster than this year, our chances of winning the 2012 trophy may be no lower than any other contender (best coach in the league, increased confidence and competence). This will not hurt his legacy.
3. Why would he not want the money he makes?
JKidd should NOT retire, yet
He needs to hang around for atleast another year or two, come off the bench and act as a mentor to the new starting PG, whoever that might be.
I hope he takes up a coaching stint w the Mavs after retirement.
This.
But of course if he doesn’t want to that’s his decision. I really doubt he intends to hang it up completely. I still feel like he could go on to be one of the best coaches the league has ever seen.
by elbow greater than face on Jul 4, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree, but
don’t know if he’d want the headaches for considerably less money than he’s used to making. He could be great at it though.
I think Kidd feels he has one more year in him, and the hardest thing to do in sports is walk away while you’re on top (unless you’ve made the decision that it’s your last season ahead of time, ala Jerome Bettis). It’s been a long journey for Kidd, but now he’s not only reached the top but he probably feels like this current group of Mavs has a real shot at winning another title. The regret one feels when you walk away from that last good chance can really eat at one, which has led several players to comebacks when the game has likely passed them by. He’s said his body still feels good, and that will likely keep him in the league for another year or two, barring a lockout season.
I think he should stay as long as he’s a member of the Mavs (or gets a trade to another contending team). It’s much easier to walk away from the Timberwolves than it is from the Mavs.
Jason Kidd should do what Jason Kidd thinks Jason Kidd should do
because he’s Jason motherfuckin’ Kidd.
by Jim America on Jul 3, 2011 12:45 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Enough said.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jul 3, 2011 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions
rec'd
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 3, 2011 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Kidd Still Has Game & Dallas can Repeat
First of all, Dallas can easily repeat if there is a season next year. No one out there can stop Dirk yet & Caron is ready to breakout along with Corey and Roddy. (Dallas also still has that stiffling Defense from the Shawn & DeShawn duo)
Second, good big men get better with age. Tyson will dominate, and will soon own his own farm/ranch in DFW! He and JET should be All-Stars & next season, they will prove it!
Finally, Jason Kidd is in a sweet spot. He still has skills & a killer 3 pointer. He will know when it’s time to leave. That’s when the mind says go-go-go but the body says no-no-no! He just needs to keep the body charged & ready over the summers, don’t let it have a letdown as he approaches 40, and keep taking plenty of naps.
dirk's career
will never get better.
he will only get slower.
he just led us to a championship.
should dirk retire?
you know something Funny?
Honestly I think the only thing that will cause Dirk to retire will be Injuries/lack of desire….His game has never been predicated on “blowing by people” but using his height and fadeaway to make his shots….both of which don’t age…….
Now I can see a point where the grind of the season is just too much to deal with and/or a Yao Ming situation where multiple Injuries leave him in too much pain to run down the court….but if neither of those happen….Dirk could be 50 and still be draining that Fadeaway…for Dallas of course…..
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 4, 2011 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I envision him as a spot-up big man who plays the role of a secondary or third scorer in his last days as a NBA player.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot."
- Bill Russell
by Marjun Raposon on Jul 5, 2011 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions
over the next few years
by the time his current contract is up, I see Dirk transitioning into the “sixth man” role…NOw the key will be his next contract(assuming he doesn’t retire after this one)…do you pay him as a “superstar”, or as a Role player?……
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 5, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think so
Dirk will end his career as a starter or he will retire,like many other HOFs.If Dallas will not have a starting spot for him after 3 years, he will probably go somewhere else.He is too good to be a role player
In his recent interview...
…Dirk stated that he will play another 3 or 4 years at a high level with Dallas and then retire. Things change, and this championship may change him. He talks a lot about wanting to be a family man, etc. I think he feels he has a few good years left in him, and I expect him to play hard and at a high level until he decides he’s done, in a few years. He’ll walk away as a legend, and not a sixth man or bench/role player, unless injury does him in somehow.
I miss 1989. I miss 1996. Please make me miss another season in 2008.
This has always been his mindset
In an interview in 2008 he made it clear about this argument:
"I think the worst thing that athletes can do is play too long and at the end look slow and don’t look right and they lose some of their reputation. I want to play when it’s fun, but when I have to get up in the morning, everything hurts and I have to go to work, if that’s my mentality, then I’d rather quit and do something else." And on negotiating an extension: "I don’t want to commit until I’m 35, 36 or whatever and then I really don’t want to play that long. But, saying that now, I really don’t know. I think everything’s kind of out in the open."
let the old man defend the ring.
and see if he’s really that old.
HOPE is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of men.
Kidd would probably play in a shortened season (if ever there is one due to the lockout). I don’t see him walking away from that.
The task to mentor the young PG falls on Carlisle as well. No matter how much chit chat Kidd has with the PGs, if they don’t get to play, it will be of no use. If you want to keep Kidd just to mentor young guards, he can do it while not being part of the playing roster.
I think Kidd is competitive enough to know that defending the title would be something worth playing for as much as winning one. Yeah, his stats may see a dip – hell, a plunge even. But do you think it would matter? How many times has he missed a triple double simply because he didn’t have enough points? If he wanted to, he could have hogged it up ala NBA Star on those games and tried to score. Yet there wasn’t even an urge to. (Laugh at it, yeah, he knew he couldn’t score, so why even bother.) Why be concerned about stats now?
You saw Shaq die a horrible death in Boston. Did that take anything away from how you see Shaq’s contribution to the game? Look at Kidd and appreciate what he has done before the NBA, in the NBA, and even for US Basketball. Let the kid play and see what he’s still got – he might just have a good 1-2 years left in him. He’ll be smart enough to retire when he feels he’s got nothing else to give.
Don't need another perfect line... Don't care if critics ever jump in line...
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