The Proposed Kidd to the Mavs Trade: Initial Thoughts

Does It Suck?

I dont understand why everyone in the comments is talking so bad against this trade. I understand that Kidd is 35 and Harris is about to hit his prime, but Harris is arguably not one of our top 3 players (Dirk, JHo, and JET) and Kidd would now be #2. Diop is a role player and can be replaced easily through another small trade that would need to happen. Apparently Stack is going to be bought out, and can come back after 30 days. Who doesnt think that Stack needs to rest his knees anyway.

This does shrink our window, but it opens it up for the next 2 years. Am I crazy in my thinking?

by dallasfan41 on Feb 13, 2008 3:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You're freaking nuts

Not only is Devin CLEARLY a better player than Terry right now, I would have argued his worth against Josh's for this team before today.

Devin is a budding star at PG.

by jthig32 on Feb 13, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How Long

do we need to wait for Harris to become a star. He is what he is now, which isnt a bad thing. His worth to the team is that of any point guard on any team. Kidd easily replaces what he does, and will do it better. Neither can shoot and Kidd is a better passer which will make everyone better.

by dallasfan41 on Feb 13, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Neither can shoot?

Check the shooting percentages buddy, and stop living in last NBA season. Devin Harris has a legit jump shot now.

by jthig32 on Feb 13, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Legit?

Yeah, that's a little off base...

Improving? Sure.

Bottom line... Devin Harris wasn't one of the 5 or 6 best PGs in the Western Conference. Jason Kidd instantly becomes #1 or 2... It's an upgrade folks.

by N41D on Feb 13, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You really are nuts

If you think Jason Kidd as of today is a top 5 PG in the West.

And he wasn't improving, he was legit.

by jthig32 on Feb 13, 2008 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

dude almost

averages a triple double! Scoring at the 1 isn't necessary on your team. Just feed the guys who need to be fed. I think this trade will work out well and if not you weren't gonna win it anyways. This is certainly the best shot you guys have!

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Feb 13, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Top PGs According to Kelly Dwyer

Article

Is it worth all that just to go from no. 9 to no. 7? Don't think so. Look at this type of list in 2-3 years and Devin will be a top 5 PG in the NBA.

The Mavs better win it all because I see the Mavs of 92-93 around the corner.

by dirk41 on Feb 13, 2008 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree

Josh seems to drift in and out of games.

by dirk41 on Feb 13, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

J. Howard

is one guy I would trade Travis Outlaw or Martell Webster + picks etc. for. Harris not so much, although I would have given anyone other then the 5 untouchables for Harris...

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Feb 13, 2008 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you guys will like this trade alot more

come playoff time. I just wish you guys had traded Devin Harris to us. We would have traded the farm other then Roy, Oden, LMA, Oulaw and Martell. Could have given you huge expiring contracts draft picks #2 3pt shooter in the NBA and oh so much more. Kidd though will get you to the Dance sooner. I think this was a decent trade other then the draft picks and additional $$$$. Cuban obviously thinks your team's chances are more about Dirk then Harris/Howard. Hence he is trying to win now while Dirk is in his prime.

Just the thoughts of a Blazers fan.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Feb 13, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

by Turkish41 on Feb 13, 2008 3:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

is it just me

am i the only person in the world that thought the mavs missing piece was a shooting guard? avery has shuffled multiple players in and out of the 2 spot for years and has never gotten more than mediocre results. if we were going to make a splash, why not go after magette, or mike miller, or redd, anyone who can fill the two spot?

by ninjoker on Feb 13, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

No -it's not just you

I would have pulled the trigger on the rumored Terry-Maggette deal. Maggette gets to the basket. I'm sick of watching them throw up bricks around the 3pt line.

by dirk41 on Feb 13, 2008 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nets blogs

all you have to do is read nets blog comments to see what their fans are saying. its not a good feeling.

by ninjoker on Feb 13, 2008 3:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

TEH SUK

The end. Whooo! Who bets that Avery won't even use his strengths like pushing the ball up the floor. I'm so thrilled to watch one of the best PGs of all time run our retarded Paul "I suck at life" Westphal-designed plays!

by postman35 on Feb 13, 2008 3:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Overreactions

-Mavs FO obviously saw that Harris was never going to be the floor general for us. Or at least not for awhile. While we could have waited for him, we've got Dirk going on 30 with already declining stats and Josh going on 28.

-Our biggest knock has always been our lack of a playmaker in the crunch--someone to set up the right play and pass. Harris wasn't that person

-Harris is young and has upside, but please don't say he's "better" than HOF Kidd who is a walking triple double

-We do give up more than I'd like, but Stack may resign with us and I'm 100% sure the FO is looking to make more deals to fill the holes they've created on the bench.

-The window was already closing on us with the emergence of new teams in the West. While Kidd may not be the answer, the team as currently constructed was likely not either.

Just my 2 cents.

by aluzzi on Feb 13, 2008 3:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Mavs brass

obviously agrees with you.

by Wes Cox on Feb 13, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All Star Game

Kidd was supposed to start for the East. Do you think he'll still play since he was voted in by the fans? I'm pretty sure this is the first time a trade has ever happened that could potentially interfere with All Star rosters.

by DiopBlocker on Feb 13, 2008 4:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

no

iverson trade was the same way

by ab03 on Feb 13, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No

Unprecetended.

by jthig32 on Feb 13, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

I'm trying to come around and like this trade.

Kidd has been unhappy in NJ, and he'll be invigorated by the idea of winning his first title. He's gonna play like Kidd of old and utterly dominate for the rest of the season and into the playoffs.
He's got big game experience and he's a fearless leader.
He's big enough to guard opposing two-guards, meaning we can let Jason Terry do what he was put on Earth to do: Play the role of shooting guard on offense, while guarding opposing point guards.
We finally have a point guard Avery trusts.
We're gonna get Stackhouse back.
Antoine Wright is an intriguing player. Certainly better than Mo Ager, who, despite his remarkable athleticism, was never gonna play here.

All those things are true, right? Right?

If Dwyade falls 8 times and gets up 9 times in the woods without anyone around to hear it, does it make a sound?

by thedirkatron on Feb 13, 2008 4:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Some of those are just

hopefully true.

by Wes Cox on Feb 13, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If this trade is Harris/Diop/Filler

This trade is absolutely a win for the Mavericks.

Harris may be a star a couple of years from now. But Josh Howard, Dirk, and Jason Terry are in their primes right now. We could not wait another couple of years for Devin Harris to become an elite PG. We just couldn't.

As long as the rumor that Stackhouse is being bought out and returning to Dallas is indeed true, this deal is a W for the Mavericks.

by N41D on Feb 13, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mavs needed to do SOMETHING...

...but this is ridiculous.

I was a Kidd fan when he was a Mav, and I miss our starting PG able to get us 10+ assists a night, but the FO goes from being extremely conservative last summer to now pretty much blowing everything up. The core as I see it was Dirk, JHoward, and Devin - not JET. It doesn't look like the Nets are going to let us re-sign Stack so we lose that leadership and experience. After seeing what little the Lakers had to give up for a frontcourt player in his prime like Gasol, this is too expensive, too risky, and as many have pointed out, doesn't address the Mavs' key weaknesses of interior scoring or 2-guard.

That proposed Terry-Maggette trade or getting Mike Miller are much better options.

The only ex-Mavs PG they should be going after is Nash, and that'll obviously never happen - nor would he be as successful here.

UUUUGGGGGHHHHHH....and we need to sweeten it with 2008 and 2010 draft picks?!?! By 2010, we'll need that pick as the Mavs rebuild!

Remember the last trade the Mavs made with the Nets -- another one-sided affair:

New Jersey Nets trade Shawn Bradley, Robert Pack, Ed O'Bannon and Khalid Reeves to Dallas Mavericks for Jim Jackson, Eric Montross, Sam Cassell, Chris Gatling and George McCloud

by dirk41 on Feb 13, 2008 4:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Now Cuban needs to get busy...

And go put that KVH deal to use and find someone ready to ship out a decent big...

Hell, since it's not my money, send KVH to Chicago for Ben Wallace and see if you can invigorate him with the chance to win another ring...

by N41D on Feb 13, 2008 4:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

stack

Even if we get Stack back the deadline to add playoff eligible players is march 1st.

by drpeepers on Feb 13, 2008 4:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hope that happens

It makes it a lot more palatable.

by dirk41 on Feb 13, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stackhouse is coming back...

And I very seriously doubt playoff eligibility will be an issue. Why would Cuban do this, with the intentions of Jerry coming right back, and not be aware of whether or not he'll be playoff eligible? That's not going to be an issue.

by N41D on Feb 13, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I beleive

that date only applies if the player has not played in the NBA that season.

by Wes Cox on Feb 13, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So...

...the Mavs are trading a 24-yr old PG who incidently is the only PG to ever take the Mavs to the NBA Finals, and oh BTW his stats and leadership skills continue to grow (see below). When he's not playing, his team looks like sh*t.

Why exactly?

PPG Since 2004: 5.7, 9.9, 10.2, 14.4
APG Since 2004: 2.2, 3.2, 3.7, 5.3 (this is the ONLY area Kidd helps)
3PT% Since 2004: 33.6, 23.8, 28.0, 35.7!
Career FG% of 47%
(yeah, he can't shoot)

by dirk41 on Feb 13, 2008 5:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Because Kidd is better RIGHT NOW...

This team cannot wait for Devin Harris to be CONSISTENTLY good. Dirk, Josh, JET, Stackhouse... The time for a championship is NOW. Not another couple of years from now when Devin has finally figured it all out. He's gotten better, but he's still inconsistent. He still makes dumb mistakes and still leans on Avery way too much. He's not a leader at the PG spot. We all want Dirk to be that guy, but he's just not. This team needs a leader. And it starts with the PG. This team needs a play-maker. And Jason Kidd is just that. He's going to take this team to another level.

by N41D on Feb 13, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad

someone else sees this trade for what it is. Dirk is 30 and when Harris figures it out it may be too late.

by dallasfan41 on Feb 13, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I honestly don't see why people hate this...

Harris has gotten better, but the kid plays well for a month or two and people think he should be untouchable...

Though he's playing better, Harris is still inconsistent.
He's still not a floor leader.
He's still looking for Avery every single trip down the court.
He's still a guy that will show up huge one night offensively, and disappear the next.
He just doesn't have a huge impact offensively when he's not scoring.

People have been complaining about the offense and how it's run... Well what do you think Jason Kidd is about to do to this team? Dirk is better from this trade. So is Josh, and JET, and Stackhouse. Jason Kidd has made guys Mikki Moore and Kenyon Martin look like All-Stars. You don't think this benefits Dampier offensively? This trade makes the Mavericks better. Giving up Harris and a bunch of spare parts just does not bother me.

by N41D on Feb 13, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Mavs are mortgaging their future

While the West loads up on young talented PGs like CPaul, D. Williams, Farmar, etc. the Mavs are going the opposite direction.

If you like the trade, that means you're acknowledging the Mavs screwed-up royally by not re-signing Nash.

Harris was a weapon against the Suns and Spurs. Kidd may be a liability on the defensive end.

These are the teams the Mavs will have to face to win a championship - the whole point of these exercises. I don't see how this gets them any closer. We needed a shake-up -- at the 2 guard -- not at point since I feel we were set there for many years.

by dirk41 on Feb 13, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Indictment of the Coaching Staff

Maybe I'm overreacting but since these are initial thoughts...I feel that Avery wanted to mold Devin into something he wasn't instead of adapting to him. Initially this season he gave him some rope but then he went back to calling plays for Devin. I felt bad that Devin could't feel free to just play, make mistakes, and learn on the fly.

I agree with one of the diaries -- our plays do suck. Watching the Mavs this season has been a chore -- I just fast-forward through games, something I've never done before. Devin and Bass have been the brighest spots this season.

Final point - who was the single player who DID show up last season in the GS series - Devin!

You trade players that don't step-up or aren't meeting expectations, not rare gems like Devin. He's one of the 3 fastest players in the NBA, and SA and Phoenix fans have got to be happy their teams don't have to defend him anymore.

by dirk41 on Feb 13, 2008 5:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Curry

Would anyone do a Eddy Curry for Jason Terry trade? Don't really want Zach Randolph and I don't know of any other big men out there available for trade. The Mavs have to make another move for another big man now dont' they?

Derek

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Feb 13, 2008 5:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

NO!

Maybe I'm saying this because it's not my money, but I seriously think Cuban needs to go get Ben Wallace from Chicago with KVH's deal... The Bulls would LOVE it. And I really think a legit shot at a title and getting out of Chicago could rejuvenate Big Ben. If he's 75% of what he was in Detroit, it's better than anything we've got on the blocks defensively...

by N41D on Feb 13, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Outside thoughts

I figured some of you would be upset Devin Harris would be leaving. I would be too. Losing Diop would not feel too good either. I'm not the biggest fan of Kidd, dating back to his Cal days, and I think the guy is extremely overrated when you look at the overall effect he had on the Phoenix franchise (nothing).

That being said if Kidd still has alot in the tank this could bode well for the Mavs, if A) he can still defend the way he "supposedly" once did and B) Terry and Kidd play well together in the backcourt consistently.

This is clearly the Mavs shot at trying to win now. Once again, assuming it becomes a done deal, I hope it works well for the Mavs. Good luck in the playoffs.

Dirk bonked in 07. Will he in 08?

by pookeyguru on Feb 13, 2008 6:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Dear God,

They say you love us all.

That's a damn lie, isn't it?

by Ian Miller on Feb 13, 2008 6:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

stupid, Stupid. STUPID!

It's primarily a blessing to have an owner as committed to winning as Mark Cuban. He's incredibly involved, desperate to win, passionate to a fault. The third surfaced today.
My question is this: If Devin Harris doesn't get injured a week and a half ago, does this happen? I think not.
If the Mavs don't embarrass themselves in front of Philadelphia and Detroit, does this happen? I don't believe so.
And that's what irks me. This isn't a move done in the best interests of the team. Kidd isn't going to take the Mavericks over the top any more than Harris would. He's thirty-five, and even a physical freak like him declines at that advanced stage. Exceptions only occur with the inclusion of Brian McNamee into the picture. For this player, the Mavs dealt a rising star ten years younger and three members of their rotation (Although Stack will probably be back in a month).
What's that? We also gave up any minute chance to add good young players in the next two years?
Freaking fantastic. Excuse me for not writing more, but I've got a Mark Cuban portrait to tear to shreds.

sportsdeals.blogspot.com

by Or Moyal on Feb 13, 2008 6:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Avery and Donnie

probably had more to do with the trade than Cuban. All three obviously signed off on it and I would love to know if there was one person in particular who was pushing hard for or against it. Hopefully that comes out in time.

by Wes Cox on Feb 13, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the idea of trading for an aging star...

.....who's bitching about wanting a trade was that you're supposed to get him cheaply.

I don't think it's cheap and I think it's far to risky a gamble with the team's future to try and win now. I so hope I'm wrong about this but I recall what it was like being a Mavs fan in 1993. For those of you don't remember, you'll soon know what it's like to look forward to the lottery.

by DitchThePlaybook on Feb 13, 2008 7:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

And what the hell are we supposed to do at the 5?

Damp and then what? Juwan Howard????

I just don't get it.

by DitchThePlaybook on Feb 13, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The FO and Avery cant be serious w herpes...

by Toddy on Feb 13, 2008 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

NETs buying out DIOP also??

I cant imagine this is true, but some have figured that the only way we would do this is if we either had a plan to get ANOTHER big man, or that the nets were not only going to buy out stack, but diop also.

by Toddy on Feb 13, 2008 7:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not to be Mr know it all

But it stands to reason Diop wouldn't help them anyway with the sole exception of maybe taking minutes away from Sean Williams. So I can see why them cutting Diop makes sense.

Dirk bonked in 07. Will he in 08?

by pookeyguru on Feb 13, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There has to be something like this...

...I can't even imagine that the front office would expect to put a team in the playoffs with one center. If he does, someone needs to check him for head trauma. There has to be more to follow.

by DitchThePlaybook on Feb 13, 2008 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

F/C's

If Diop doesn't get bought out, there are some options out there in FA, though most of them aren't good and/or probably aren't interested in coming back.

Oliwikandi, PJ Brown, Dale Davis, Kelvin Cato, Danny Fortson, Jelani McCoy, Antonio Davis...

If Dwyade falls 8 times and gets up 9 times in the woods without anyone around to hear it, does it make a sound?

by thedirkatron on Feb 13, 2008 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

After reading these comments...

some of ya'lls families might need to be contacted about putting some of ya'll on suicide alert...

If this doesnt pan out to a championship, there is going to be a riot at the AAC.

by Toddy on Feb 13, 2008 7:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

well i'm warming up a bit

i kind of see the need for some type of change and i think kidd does bring a level of toughness and leadership that they may have been lacking; on the other hand, i've always seen kidd as lacking in the character department. My biggest problem with this trade is my uncertainty that it fulfills a need for the mavs. The two biggest issues are attacking the basket and points in the paint. How does Kidd change that? He won't attack like DH. This also leaves a lot of open roster spots that need to be filled. More trades coming? Who's left to trade? No one would take Hassell.

by ninjoker on Feb 13, 2008 7:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

george

Espn is saying devean george is opting out of the trade. Looks like our one shot in the dark is happening. Now we can see how much Cuban wants Kidd, see if they bring something else up.

by drpeepers on Feb 13, 2008 8:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

In 2013( 5 years from now for you non math majors)

Who will be the better point guard?

I know how to spell Dirk, M-V-P

by srdmad on Feb 13, 2008 9:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

High risk

I'll actually write a post on this if the trade goes down, but my initial thoughts are mostly with Wes. My big issue is that the Mavericks offense is based on (limited) penetration and creating favorable isolations via screens and pick and rolls, neither of which would be helped much by Kidd.

That said, it's not like our offense really needed much help, being second in the league. So the real question is whether Kidd's presence would HURT the offense. I think it is quite possible we lose ground on offense unless the Mavs overhauled their system, and do you really do that over halfway through the season? One likely result of the above is that Jason Terry starts at shooting guard, and the Mavs focus on the offense they used over the past two years (basically pure isolation play), only with a much better facilitator at point guard.

Where we really need help is on defense, and while Kidd won't be able to stay in front of Parker and the other quicker guards like Harris could, he will be much better against strong and tall point guards like Billups and Baron Davis. I still prefer Harris here, but Kidd has a place.

Finally, Kidd won't get the rebounds he got in New Jersey with Dampier and Dirk behind him, but he will be a factor, and it is quite possible that Kidd moves the Mavericks from a very good rebounding team to a dominant one.

Finally, one step I'd like to examine in detail if the deal goes down is how Kidd helps the Mavs cap flexibility for the future. We basically consolidated five contracts into one that will be up in 2009 or 2010, depending on if an extension is granted. $20 million coming off the books all at once when you're looking to retool is a real asset.

by Jakedfw on Feb 14, 2008 9:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think this is dead on.

Even though I'm interested, I hope I don't have to read a post-mortem on this trade.

I thought Mavs are poised to get plenty of cap relief next year when Finley comes off the books....does Finley's salary not count against the cap anymore?

by DitchThePlaybook on Feb 14, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs